WE/WH: What really went wrong

[Slowbro]

Another post from someone who is not playing wh actively and has no clue about how difficult the class is. Just roll one and play till 80 and tell me how "easy and fun" it is.

[lumpi33]

Have a look at this city fight:
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 7260e39b18

There were 247 kills in the whole round 106 kills on destro side. Guess how often the 3 WEs died:
- Hide 1x
- Snickery 0x
- Petulant 0x

Imagine that. These are supposed to be squishy stealther classes and out of the 106 kills order managed to get, only one of the 3 WEs died once. The good ones are superior at surviving... They were the top damage dealers and order just couldn't kill them...

[anstalt]

Have a look at this city fight:
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 7260e39b18

There were 247 kills in the whole round 106 kills on destro side. Guess how often the 3 WEs died:
- Hide 1x
- Snickery 0x
- Petulant 0x

Imagine that. These are supposed to be squishy stealther classes and out of the 106 kills order managed to get, only one of the 3 WEs died once. The good ones are superior at surviving... They were the top damage dealers and order just couldn't kill them...

Looking at that city fight, there were 9 destro characters that didn't die at all, as well as 6 order characters that didn't die. Dont think you can really draw any conclusions from just looking at that one city fight.

[gersy]

Have a look at this city fight:
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 7260e39b18

There were 247 kills in the whole round 106 kills on destro side. Guess how often the 3 WEs died:
- Hide 1x
- Snickery 0x
- Petulant 0x

Imagine that. These are supposed to be squishy stealther classes and out of the 106 kills order managed to get, only one of the 3 WEs died once. The good ones are superior at surviving... They were the top damage dealers and order just couldn't kill them...

they didn't die because they are good players being supported by good players. constant tank m4 rotation, instant double guarding on the first sign of a go, good positioning/situational awareness, proper use of defensive cooldowns like vanish and pre-detaunting goes, etc. not to mention the skill gap/player quality gap between the teams here, as this was largely a "training" city for the vast majority of the order players, whilst the destro players (WE's included) are some of the strongest smallscale players still playing this game.

not saying that you are wrong here, it's true that WE when it is played at close to skill cap and when supported by similarly skilled healers/tanks is very hard to kill. the same goes for most melee dps though, just so you know.

i'm just bringing up some extra details to give insight here. i know about this topic because i was in this city, and because i have participated in almost similar cities within the past 2 years (24v24 org cities where each side queues with a full or nearly full warband with the intent of matching one another to create a worthwhile match). it isn't uncommon for extremely skilled mdps to not give up many kills, even in an organized city.

[Sever1n]

I dont think class balance existed in this game in first place. There was clearly toxic mechanics that changed over the time and forming meta classes. Any discussions of that mechanic here instantly turned into shitshow where abusers of such things lied to preserve them longer.

Problem is that no clear comunication between devs and players about classes. We cannot ask question and get clear answer. Sadly game curently far from balance, its in "meta" phase and devs patches randomly making some classes worce or better in dif game situations. If u stuck on offmeta spec no amount of topics here will help you. Good example of it is warpriest where 2h spec is clearly toxic as fk tnx to basically infinite witchbrew called "guilty soul", and dead shield spec wich players constantly ask to fix how long now? All who play game know that some things are need to be fixed asap but instead of listening playerbase devs choose to base their patches on some random bad info that comes from unknown source and in case of WH/WE made situation where this topics grew like shrooms after rain.

[lumpi33]

Have a look at this city fight:
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 7260e39b18

There were 247 kills in the whole round 106 kills on destro side. Guess how often the 3 WEs died:
- Hide 1x
- Snickery 0x
- Petulant 0x

Imagine that. These are supposed to be squishy stealther classes and out of the 106 kills order managed to get, only one of the 3 WEs died once. The good ones are superior at surviving... They were the top damage dealers and order just couldn't kill them...

they didn't die because they are good players being supported by good players. constant tank m4 rotation, instant double guarding on the first sign of a go, good positioning/situational awareness, proper use of defensive cooldowns like vanish and pre-detaunting goes, etc. not to mention the skill gap/player quality gap between the teams here, as this was largely a "training" city for the vast majority of the order players, whilst the destro players (WE's included) are some of the strongest smallscale players still playing this game.

not saying that you are wrong here, it's true that WE when it is played at close to skill cap and when supported by similarly skilled healers/tanks is very hard to kill. the same goes for most melee dps though, just so you know.

i'm just bringing up some extra details to give insight here. i know about this topic because i was in this city, and because i have participated in almost similar cities within the past 2 years (24v24 org cities where each side queues with a full or nearly full warband with the intent of matching one another to create a worthwhile match). it isn't uncommon for extremely skilled mdps to not give up many kills, even in an organized city.

I think you are down playing this situation a bit.

That destro guild Solo Queuers showed up with 2 WEs, 2 maras and 2 dps doks is already a dead give away that these classes are currently better than choppas or any ranged dps.

Every one of these are also better than their order counterpart:
+ WE -> more auto attacks and more procs with dual wield, additional pounce to get out or close gap, stronger self absorb, free parry bonus from dual wield
+ Mara -> more auto attacks and more procs with dual wield, 2s aoe kd to give healers a heal window when they are close to dying, free parry bonus from dual wield, pull doesn't rely on pet
+ Doks -> more auto attacks and more procs with dual wield, prayer to keep everyone snared without even having to apply snare, free parry bonus from dual wield
+ On top of these gain the 250 toughness buff from the shamans.

- WHs don't have dual wield, don't have pounce, have a weaker self absorb
- WLs don't have dual wield, have pounce but have to rely on their pet for damage which just dies in all the aoe in cities, no parry bonus, pull relies on pet
- WPs don't have dual wield, don't have the snare prayer, no parry bonus
- AMs don't have a 250 toughness hot.

So yeah, it is not only the WEs but since you can see that they do top damage, top kills and not dying... speaks volumes. Even the WE from the other group that was not in the Solo Queuers premade did very well.

I don't know why they gave WEs a pounce or Maras WL like damage but with the last patches it shifted very much in favor of destro while it was actually already in favor of destro before. People starting to notice that. Look at the T2 population of the last 90 days: https://ibb.co/ksvP65qS See how it turns deep red towards the end? Well... surprise, surprise

[abezverkhiy]

What's wrong with Subtlety post? I do not get it.

Also I do not get a purpose of this another trashy thread "Nerf WE's/WH's because they killed me and I am so dumb so I do not get why and how to fight them"?

May I suggest devs introducing forums bans to such cry babies? I do not see WE's/WH's whinging about plate armor, 2h weapons, ranged attacks and heals other classes have and they do not afterall...

[lumpi33]

What's wrong with Subtlety post? I do not get it.

Also I do not get a purpose of this another trashy thread "Nerf WE's/WH's because they killed me and I am so dumb so I do not get why and how to fight them"?

May I suggest devs introducing forums bans to such cry babies? I do not see WE's/WH's whinging about plate armor, 2h weapons, ranged attacks and heals other classes have and they do not afterall...

Kill the messenger?

[Sever1n]

Dps dok better than choppa/mara? 2h worse than dual wield? Hats dont have dual wield?

[ravezaar]

WE is on the lvl where Slayer with full Rampage was 5y ago and SW when BHA stacked. Thats how broken it is currently. Either reduce its dmg but better sort out the tool set it has.

WE currently is --- jack of all trades master of many