[WE/WH] shadow

[SuperStar]

The person writes that some classes focus only on damage stat while remaining at the top of the food chain with a decent defense, while others are forced to invest in defense in order to be competitive. And he suggests nerfing the latter. Are there any solid arguments there? I trust the killboard statistics.

Yeas like i said and wrote many times.
I have a tons of arguments, you should read them before write or wanna talk about it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60311

You're simply wrong.

3211 solo kills, 49 solo deaths:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... oOnly=true

What you're misunderstanding is the build/abilities. RP gets free:

* 100 tough buff
* 80 tough tactic
* 660 armour tactic

Meaning you can reach 500 tough, 2.6k armour whilst using offensive gear with 30%+ crit, capped int and decent mag power. No other class can gear like a glass cannon with defenses like a def build.

There's simply no trade-off for an RP.

Then throw in that RP can toggle 1050 int / 32% mag crit and 200 mag power to 1050 willpower / 32% heal crit and 200 heal power from a single ability. So if you get to 50% hp, you simply switch to healing and you're unkillable. I'm sure you know how tough it is for 1 person to kill a sov geared healer right.

That's not high risk lol

Finally something even if they are not correct.
100 toughness is a blessing with 10! Min! Cd.

It usually taken down, i dont think any rp use its only good before anybody die.
80 toughnes is a tactic, for me the 600 absorb look better.
Same with the 660 armor. I would pick the 600 absorb.
Both tactic so not free. You should choose.

And like i said dont compare one really good maybe the best by far player with the others.

Like in engi class there is one very good solo player.

You should not pick an exception to talk about a class.

And you should use the other leaderboard imo.

[Soldis]

When the arguments run out (there never were any, as far as I can see; some basic knowledge would be required), then the personal attacks and rudeness begin.

In order to be able to talk to you about the topic, you need to gather some knowledge. I recommend starting with the welf nerf topic.

The person writes that some classes focus only on damage stat while remaining at the top of the food chain with a decent defense, while others are forced to invest in defense in order to be competitive. And he suggests nerfing the latter. Are there any solid arguments there? I trust the killboard statistics.

Yeas like i said and wrote many times.
I have a tons of arguments, you should read them before write or wanna talk about it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60311

I was reading about your misconceptions, and others have already answered them for you. Ignorance of mechanics, problems with mathematics. If you can't figure out how it works, then look at the statistics.

[SuperStar]

No problem killing WE on anything except maybe my BW and SW, if they jump me from stealth. I would say skill issues but some of your characters are pretty good that i've seen, so you just having a little princess moment? Suck it up buttercup, there is a counter for every class in this game. You jus have issues with 2 or 3 WE's ganking your solo toon. Well if they didnt have stealth they'd be a marauder wouldnt they? You think 3 squig herders and a shaman arent going to swiss cheese your solo / duo roamers?

You should read a bit before talk about a topic imo. There is a welf nerf topic if you read it you will have some base knowlege and we can talk about it.

[SuperStar]

The person writes that some classes focus only on damage stat while remaining at the top of the food chain with a decent defense, while others are forced to invest in defense in order to be competitive. And he suggests nerfing the latter. Are there any solid arguments there? I trust the killboard statistics.

Yeas like i said and wrote many times.
I have a tons of arguments, you should read them before write or wanna talk about it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60311

I was reading about your misconceptions, and others have already answered them for you. Ignorance of mechanics, problems with mathematics. If you can't figure out how it works, then look at the statistics.

If you really read it and you disnt understood it iam afraid i cannot help you. You dont have the base knowlege to talk about it.
You have no argument, you're just being rude and getting personal. Sad.

[nat3s]

Yeas like i said and wrote many times.
I have a tons of arguments, you should read them before write or wanna talk about it.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=60311

You're simply wrong.

3211 solo kills, 49 solo deaths:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... oOnly=true

What you're misunderstanding is the build/abilities. RP gets free:

* 100 tough buff
* 80 tough tactic
* 660 armour tactic

Meaning you can reach 500 tough, 2.6k armour whilst using offensive gear with 30%+ crit, capped int and decent mag power. No other class can gear like a glass cannon with defenses like a def build.

There's simply no trade-off for an RP.

Then throw in that RP can toggle 1050 int / 32% mag crit and 200 mag power to 1050 willpower / 32% heal crit and 200 heal power from a single ability. So if you get to 50% hp, you simply switch to healing and you're unkillable. I'm sure you know how tough it is for 1 person to kill a sov geared healer right.

That's not high risk lol

Finally something even if they are not correct.
100 toughness is a blessing with 10! Min! Cd.

It usually taken down, i dont think any rp use its only good before anybody die.
80 toughnes is a tactic, for me the 600 absorb look better.
Same with the 660 armor. I would pick the 600 absorb.
Both tactic so not free. You should choose.

And like i said dont compare one really good maybe the best by far player with the others.

Like in engi class there is one very good solo player.

You should not pick an exception to talk about a class.

And you should use the other leaderboard imo.

I recently finished gearing my RP for solo play myself, once ive grinded out some solo kills I suspect i'll have a higher k/d return than Vap. There's a reason why RPs no matter the player have a consistently high k/d return in solo kills. There's a reason why the top 3 classes in the duel tournament were all AMs. Balance and build options is a huge part of it.

You've also ignored the toggle between dps to healing. Throw in RP also gets 50% dmg reduction shield wall.

Worth noting 600 absorb does not proc on dot crits which is most of the dmg solo RP, AM, Engi will be doing.

Yes you lose against WEs/WHs, we get it. However look at your own build and skill level. It's not that WEs/WHs are op, it's that they specifically build to exploit glass cannon players.

You're hiding from us, I've posted my def WE, def WL, Zeal, RP, def Mag, dual hot dps Sham (I exclusively play solo meta specs)... Who is your main? What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you.

[SuperStar]

You're simply wrong.

3211 solo kills, 49 solo deaths:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... oOnly=true

What you're misunderstanding is the build/abilities. RP gets free:

* 100 tough buff
* 80 tough tactic
* 660 armour tactic

Meaning you can reach 500 tough, 2.6k armour whilst using offensive gear with 30%+ crit, capped int and decent mag power. No other class can gear like a glass cannon with defenses like a def build.

There's simply no trade-off for an RP.

Then throw in that RP can toggle 1050 int / 32% mag crit and 200 mag power to 1050 willpower / 32% heal crit and 200 heal power from a single ability. So if you get to 50% hp, you simply switch to healing and you're unkillable. I'm sure you know how tough it is for 1 person to kill a sov geared healer right.

That's not high risk lol

Finally something even if they are not correct.
100 toughness is a blessing with 10! Min! Cd.

It usually taken down, i dont think any rp use its only good before anybody die.
80 toughnes is a tactic, for me the 600 absorb look better.
Same with the 660 armor. I would pick the 600 absorb.
Both tactic so not free. You should choose.

And like i said dont compare one really good maybe the best by far player with the others.

Like in engi class there is one very good solo player.

You should not pick an exception to talk about a class.

And you should use the other leaderboard imo.

I recently finished gearing my RP for solo play myself, once ive grinded out some solo kills I suspect i'll have a higher k/d return than Vap. There's a reason why RPs no matter the player have a consistently high k/d return in solo kills. There's a reason why the top 3 classes in the duel tournament were all AMs. Balance and build options is a huge part of it.

You've also ignored the toggle between dps to healing. Throw in RP also gets 50% dmg reduction shield wall.

Worth noting 600 absorb does not proc on dot crits which is most of the dmg solo RP, AM, Engi will be doing.

Yes you lose against WEs/WHs, we get it. However look at your own build and skill level. It's not that WEs/WHs are op, it's that they specifically build to exploit glass cannon players.

You're hiding from us, I've posted my def WE, def WL, Zeal, RP, def Mag, dual hot dps Sham (I exclusively play solo meta specs)... Who is your main? What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you.

Like i write in this or orher topic maybe my famous char was my choppa Dhat my guard was the real star Insolence with his chosen.

If you read my topic its not about my personal problem. The def welf are unfair thats all. They have every utility all what is in this game. And most of us feel them unbalanced unfair and the def welfs makes a lot of fustration over years now.

And i have time now in office and i started to search what could be the problem (ability viewer)

And i think i figured out. I compared all the other mdps and the main problem welf has magic dmg with a high base dmg so the toughness and armor wont reduce it at all. So the welf can go full regen def and still can do a pretty good dmg and kill ppl. And top on that they have every utiliy no other class has all. Disarm silence kd morale drain ranged snare wounds and toughness debuff ignore armor szagger duble pounce chatge everything.

So instead to reduce all of the utility welf has just make the magic melee base dmg low so if they wanna kill they should go build strg and crit atleast. Not just str.

Because for now def welf is a zero risk high reward game play.

Let them hit hige but they should invest into offensive stat to kill somebody they will still good because they will have all utility in this game ( they dont have pet thats all)


Also i dont talk about 1v1 balance because pointless devs wont and should not balance around 1v1. Grimmir shield is 3min cd mate i dont forget it and it for 10sec…

Vap now the best dps rp and i dont see anything near to him to be honest everybody else is not a big threat. Or atleast i dk them. If you see the other leaderboard you can see the dps runi zealot am shamy dont coz big fustration in rvr. Because they are high risk high reward or low risk low reward. Maybe the top players are strong im 1v1 but even if i like 1v1 this game ira not about 1v1.

Of course a self healer dotter will win in 1v1 not a big surprise if the player have the same skill and knowlege btw.

I talk about high risk high reward, low risk low reward and outliers. Def welf and regen wl has zero risk and high reward game play this is the problem.

I talk about a big problem what coz a lot of fustration. Just check the welf nerf topic.

[nat3s]

Finally something even if they are not correct.
100 toughness is a blessing with 10! Min! Cd.

It usually taken down, i dont think any rp use its only good before anybody die.
80 toughnes is a tactic, for me the 600 absorb look better.
Same with the 660 armor. I would pick the 600 absorb.
Both tactic so not free. You should choose.

And like i said dont compare one really good maybe the best by far player with the others.

Like in engi class there is one very good solo player.

You should not pick an exception to talk about a class.

And you should use the other leaderboard imo.

I recently finished gearing my RP for solo play myself, once ive grinded out some solo kills I suspect i'll have a higher k/d return than Vap. There's a reason why RPs no matter the player have a consistently high k/d return in solo kills. There's a reason why the top 3 classes in the duel tournament were all AMs. Balance and build options is a huge part of it.

You've also ignored the toggle between dps to healing. Throw in RP also gets 50% dmg reduction shield wall.

Worth noting 600 absorb does not proc on dot crits which is most of the dmg solo RP, AM, Engi will be doing.

Yes you lose against WEs/WHs, we get it. However look at your own build and skill level. It's not that WEs/WHs are op, it's that they specifically build to exploit glass cannon players.

You're hiding from us, I've posted my def WE, def WL, Zeal, RP, def Mag, dual hot dps Sham (I exclusively play solo meta specs)... Who is your main? What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you.

Like i write in this or orher topic maybe my famous char was my choppa Dhat my guard was the real star Insolence with his chosen.

If you read my topic its not about my personal problem. The def welf are unfair thats all. They have every utility all what is in this game. And most of us feel them unbalanced unfair and the def welfs makes a lot of fustration over years now.

And i have time now in office and i started to search what could be the problem (ability viewer)

And i think i figured out. I compared all the other mdps and the main problem welf has magic dmg with a high base dmg so the toughness and armor wont reduce it at all. So the welf can go full regen def and still can do a pretty good dmg and kill ppl. And top on that they have every utiliy no other class has all. Disarm silence kd morale drain ranged snare wounds and toughness debuff ignore armor szagger duble pounce chatge everything.

So instead to reduce all of the utility welf has just make the magic melee base dmg low so if they wanna kill they should go build strg and crit atleast. Not just str.

Because for now def welf is a zero risk high reward game play.

Let them hit hige but they should invest into offensive stat to kill somebody they will still good because they will have all utility in this game ( they dont have pet thats all)


Also i dont talk about 1v1 balance because pointless devs wont and should not balance around 1v1. Grimmir shield is 3min cd mate i dont forget it and it for 10sec…

Vap now the best dps rp and i dont see anything near to him to be honest everybody else is not a big threat. Or atleast i dk them. If you see the other leaderboard you can see the dps runi zealot am shamy dont coz big fustration in rvr. Because they are high risk high reward or low risk low reward. Maybe the top players are strong im 1v1 but even if i like 1v1 this game ira not about 1v1.

Of course a self healer dotter will win in 1v1 not a big surprise if the player have the same skill and knowlege btw.

I talk about high risk high reward, low risk low reward and outliers. Def welf and regen wl has zero risk and high reward game play this is the problem.

I talk about a big problem what coz a lot of fustration. Just check the welf nerf topic.

Finally something even if they are not correct.
100 toughness is a blessing with 10! Min! Cd.

It usually taken down, i dont think any rp use its only good before anybody die.
80 toughnes is a tactic, for me the 600 absorb look better.
Same with the 660 armor. I would pick the 600 absorb.
Both tactic so not free. You should choose.

And like i said dont compare one really good maybe the best by far player with the others.

Like in engi class there is one very good solo player.

You should not pick an exception to talk about a class.

And you should use the other leaderboard imo.

I recently finished gearing my RP for solo play myself, once ive grinded out some solo kills I suspect i'll have a higher k/d return than Vap. There's a reason why RPs no matter the player have a consistently high k/d return in solo kills. There's a reason why the top 3 classes in the duel tournament were all AMs. Balance and build options is a huge part of it.

You've also ignored the toggle between dps to healing. Throw in RP also gets 50% dmg reduction shield wall.

Worth noting 600 absorb does not proc on dot crits which is most of the dmg solo RP, AM, Engi will be doing.

Yes you lose against WEs/WHs, we get it. However look at your own build and skill level. It's not that WEs/WHs are op, it's that they specifically build to exploit glass cannon players.

You're hiding from us, I've posted my def WE, def WL, Zeal, RP, def Mag, dual hot dps Sham (I exclusively play solo meta specs)... Who is your main? What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you.

Like i write in this or orher topic maybe my famous char was my choppa Dhat my guard was the real star Insolence with his chosen.

If you read my topic its not about my personal problem. The def welf are unfair thats all. They have every utility all what is in this game. And most of us feel them unbalanced unfair and the def welfs makes a lot of fustration over years now.

And i have time now in office and i started to search what could be the problem (ability viewer)

And i think i figured out. I compared all the other mdps and the main problem welf has magic dmg with a high base dmg so the toughness and armor wont reduce it at all. So the welf can go full regen def and still can do a pretty good dmg and kill ppl. And top on that they have every utiliy no other class has all. Disarm silence kd morale drain ranged snare wounds and toughness debuff ignore armor szagger duble pounce chatge everything.

So instead to reduce all of the utility welf has just make the magic melee base dmg low so if they wanna kill they should go build strg and crit atleast. Not just str.

Because for now def welf is a zero risk high reward game play.

Let them hit hige but they should invest into offensive stat to kill somebody they will still good because they will have all utility in this game ( they dont have pet thats all)

So you play RoR in a group centric setting as a chop which is a fragile class and think you know about the solo meta? No wonder your perspective is skewed.

Witchbrew damage was changed to scale with strength a while back. Def WE damage is already low, fights can last minutes, that is not what makes them strong. Chosen, SM, Kotbs, Engi also do a good proportion of their damage as mag damage when solo spec'd and obviously all the caster solo specs are exclusively magic damage. The power of the def WE is not its damage.

It's also not "unfair" or "op" it's middle of the pack in solo winrate metrics. You're just doing it wrong!

Worth noting, other solo roaming classes similarly sacrifice crit for def, that's not a WE thing, it's a solo build thing. TRY IT, switch away from your crit 5sov 4tri addiction and EXPERIMENT. That is how solo meta evolves, its not by refusing to adapt and then calling for nerfs because your glass cannon chop is being beaten.

[SuperStar]

I recently finished gearing my RP for solo play myself, once ive grinded out some solo kills I suspect i'll have a higher k/d return than Vap. There's a reason why RPs no matter the player have a consistently high k/d return in solo kills. There's a reason why the top 3 classes in the duel tournament were all AMs. Balance and build options is a huge part of it.

You've also ignored the toggle between dps to healing. Throw in RP also gets 50% dmg reduction shield wall.

Worth noting 600 absorb does not proc on dot crits which is most of the dmg solo RP, AM, Engi will be doing.

Yes you lose against WEs/WHs, we get it. However look at your own build and skill level. It's not that WEs/WHs are op, it's that they specifically build to exploit glass cannon players.

You're hiding from us, I've posted my def WE, def WL, Zeal, RP, def Mag, dual hot dps Sham (I exclusively play solo meta specs)... Who is your main? What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you.

Like i write in this or orher topic maybe my famous char was my choppa Dhat my guard was the real star Insolence with his chosen.

If you read my topic its not about my personal problem. The def welf are unfair thats all. They have every utility all what is in this game. And most of us feel them unbalanced unfair and the def welfs makes a lot of fustration over years now.

And i have time now in office and i started to search what could be the problem (ability viewer)

And i think i figured out. I compared all the other mdps and the main problem welf has magic dmg with a high base dmg so the toughness and armor wont reduce it at all. So the welf can go full regen def and still can do a pretty good dmg and kill ppl. And top on that they have every utiliy no other class has all. Disarm silence kd morale drain ranged snare wounds and toughness debuff ignore armor szagger duble pounce chatge everything.

So instead to reduce all of the utility welf has just make the magic melee base dmg low so if they wanna kill they should go build strg and crit atleast. Not just str.

Because for now def welf is a zero risk high reward game play.

Let them hit hige but they should invest into offensive stat to kill somebody they will still good because they will have all utility in this game ( they dont have pet thats all)


Also i dont talk about 1v1 balance because pointless devs wont and should not balance around 1v1. Grimmir shield is 3min cd mate i dont forget it and it for 10sec…

Vap now the best dps rp and i dont see anything near to him to be honest everybody else is not a big threat. Or atleast i dk them. If you see the other leaderboard you can see the dps runi zealot am shamy dont coz big fustration in rvr. Because they are high risk high reward or low risk low reward. Maybe the top players are strong im 1v1 but even if i like 1v1 this game ira not about 1v1.

Of course a self healer dotter will win in 1v1 not a big surprise if the player have the same skill and knowlege btw.

I talk about high risk high reward, low risk low reward and outliers. Def welf and regen wl has zero risk and high reward game play this is the problem.

I talk about a big problem what coz a lot of fustration. Just check the welf nerf topic.

I recently finished gearing my RP for solo play myself, once ive grinded out some solo kills I suspect i'll have a higher k/d return than Vap. There's a reason why RPs no matter the player have a consistently high k/d return in solo kills. There's a reason why the top 3 classes in the duel tournament were all AMs. Balance and build options is a huge part of it.

You've also ignored the toggle between dps to healing. Throw in RP also gets 50% dmg reduction shield wall.

Worth noting 600 absorb does not proc on dot crits which is most of the dmg solo RP, AM, Engi will be doing.

Yes you lose against WEs/WHs, we get it. However look at your own build and skill level. It's not that WEs/WHs are op, it's that they specifically build to exploit glass cannon players.

You're hiding from us, I've posted my def WE, def WL, Zeal, RP, def Mag, dual hot dps Sham (I exclusively play solo meta specs)... Who is your main? What class do you play? Pretty sure I can help you.

Like i write in this or orher topic maybe my famous char was my choppa Dhat my guard was the real star Insolence with his chosen.

If you read my topic its not about my personal problem. The def welf are unfair thats all. They have every utility all what is in this game. And most of us feel them unbalanced unfair and the def welfs makes a lot of fustration over years now.

And i have time now in office and i started to search what could be the problem (ability viewer)

And i think i figured out. I compared all the other mdps and the main problem welf has magic dmg with a high base dmg so the toughness and armor wont reduce it at all. So the welf can go full regen def and still can do a pretty good dmg and kill ppl. And top on that they have every utiliy no other class has all. Disarm silence kd morale drain ranged snare wounds and toughness debuff ignore armor szagger duble pounce chatge everything.

So instead to reduce all of the utility welf has just make the magic melee base dmg low so if they wanna kill they should go build strg and crit atleast. Not just str.

Because for now def welf is a zero risk high reward game play.

Let them hit hige but they should invest into offensive stat to kill somebody they will still good because they will have all utility in this game ( they dont have pet thats all)

So you play RoR in a group centric setting as a chop which is a fragile class and think you know about the solo meta? No wonder your perspective is skewed.

Witchbrew damage was changed to scale with strength a while back. Def WE damage is already low, fights can last minutes, that is not what makes them strong. Chosen, SM, Kotbs, Engi also do a good proportion of their damage as mag damage when solo spec'd and obviously all the caster solo specs are exclusively magic damage. The power of the def WE is not its damage.

It's also not "unfair" or "op" it's middle of the pack in solo winrate metrics. You're just doing it wrong!

Worth noting, other solo roaming classes similarly sacrifice crit for def, that's not a WE thing, it's a solo build thing. TRY IT, switch away from your crit 5sov 4tri addiction and EXPERIMENT. That is how solo meta evolves, its not by refusing to adapt and then calling for nerfs because your glass cannon chop is being beaten.

You know a bit but you quite comfident.

Amd sadly you dodnt read at all or you cant understand what i write.

You wrong in your every sentence.

That choppawas prob my famous char.

I prob have more exp in this game than you will have. Also in solo. I have every class high rr (no engi, and sorc)

But like i wrote i didnt speak about solo balance. Seems its very hard to inderstand for you.

I suggest to read what i wrote otherwise very hard to talk with you.

Do you know what is base dmg? Do you know the dmg formula?

Omg..

[nat3s]

You know a bit but you quite comfident.

Amd sadly you dodnt read at all or you cant understand what i write.

You wrong in your every sentence.

That choppawas prob my famous char.

I prob have more exp in this game than you will have. Also in solo. I have every class high rr (no engi, and sorc)

But like i wrote i didnt speak about solo balance. Seems its very hard to inderstand for you.

I suggest to read what i wrote otherwise very hard to talk with you.

Do you know what is base dmg? Do you know the dmg formula?

Omg..

That's a lot of typos.

Yes I know about damage formulas, the higher base damage for Witchbrew and Kiss is intended because they cannot crit. Witchbrew hits for around 240 as a def WE, significantly lower than an AM, RP, Engi dot tick. The strength of def WE simply isn't its damage.

[PROsiak]

That's a lot of typos.

Yes I know about damage formulas, the higher base damage for Witchbrew and Kiss is intended because they cannot crit. Witchbrew hits for around 240 as a def WE, significantly lower than an AM, RP, Engi dot tick. The strength of def WE simply isn't its damage.

I think you guys are talking about completly different builds.
If you play WE and your witchbrew is hitting for 240 then no wonder you keep defending this class. Using your rhetoric one could say 'l2p'.

WE can build high amount of strength/meele power, while still keeping tankiness on crazy levels. Any decent WE's Witchbrew is hitting for around 450-550 after mitigation (without res buffs and debuffs), some are pushing this higher for hits around 600, that's 2.5k-3k corp damage loaded behind one skill. And u can reach this numbers while mixing defensive sets, slotting armor talis etc. And i can't but laugh, when u keep saying about low damage and no burst. Learn to timestamp your witchbrews. You can burn all stacks in a matter of mere seconds, with 1.5k wounds debuff at your disposal. If u combine this with pretty much every meaningfull stat debuff a class can get, good sustained damage and burst potential every 10sec on witchbrew, crazy mobility, overtuned absorb tactic, you get a monster solo class. The only balanced thing right now about WE are players dragging it down XD