Why SnB WP feels unplayable

[live4treasure]

All my analysis and experience in this post is based on WB groups and organized Discord groups with between 12 and 22 players online, filling the rest of the WB with external players until reaching 8-8-8 compositions.

In scenarios, I have tested it both in pugs and in 2-2-2 premades.

So, it is not a problem about composition or organized groups

Have you tried other gearsets? Looking at your setup, your block and parry are extremely low for rvr. I'm not saying the spec is viable for rvr, but I am saying that I think you are heavily underoptimized for it at the moment.

Before this 3+3+3 setup, I was also testing 5 Martyr’s (+6% block; +6% armor penetration reduction) and 4 Victorious (15% chance to apply -130 to the attacker’s main stat and +130 Initiative to myself), which is how I used to play it before the patch. But the loss of Strength and Weapon Skill made my healing absurdly low.

I recommend 5 martyr, 2 darkpromise, 2 victorious (with ring)

[kpihuss]

I’m going to test this week with a full defensive setup: 5 Martyr + 4 Victorious, full armor talismans. The profile is similar to an Invader-geared KotBS.

3862 armor (+496 armor pots)
38.5% + 10% block
21.5% + 10% parry
-2% chance to be critically hit
896 wounds (+110 from liniment and buff)

The problem is that Strength (623+150) ends up being very low, so from what I’m seeing the heals are really small. I’ll keep you updated over the course of the week.

I really hope it works. I genuinely want this to work.

(And the meme... I have to include it no matter what )

Sin título.png (204.17 KiB) Viewed 633 times

[Rydiak]

Haha that image is amazing.

Yea, I run very defensive but have over 800 Strength before Sigmar's Fist/buffs. I think you will find it much easier to survive in RvR with a more defensive set.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 872/armory

[Sciberr]

I’m going to test this week with a full defensive setup: 5 Martyr + 4 Victorious, full armor talismans. The profile is similar to an Invader-geared KotBS.

3862 armor (+496 armor pots)
38.5% + 10% block
21.5% + 10% parry
-2% chance to be critically hit
896 wounds (+110 from liniment and buff)

The problem is that Strength (623+150) ends up being very low, so from what I’m seeing the heals are really small. I’ll keep you updated over the course of the week.

I really hope it works. I genuinely want this to work.

(And the meme... I have to include it no matter what )
Sin título.png

Thats exactly what I tried and just decided to go back to wrath . Like if Grace has to be played as full tank devs might as well make it count as an off tank spec and give grace wp a taunt and guard and can take up a tank slot

[Mvl130]

The spec used to be rather straightforward, now you get into endless corridors trying to make it work, and it doesn't really, for the amount of gear and efforts you put into, it feels very underwhelming

[krumhur]

Haha that image is amazing.

Yea, I run very defensive but have over 800 Strength before Sigmar's Fist/buffs. I think you will find it much easier to survive in RvR with a more defensive set.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 872/armory

I know the post is about WPs but, for the sake of balance, I wonder how DoKs compare to WPs regarding the shield spec since you say that the key is survival.

DoK are built a bit more offensively and, while having undefendable attacks (just for single target essence builders, useless in WB where essence lash is used), they miss a couple key tactics (defensive one + more heals on defense) and also have less defenses from skills (they lack 10% parry).

Having worse defenses, and worse heals, the spec seems much harder to pull off on that class. Playing by the class strong point (offense, crits, etc) seems also not possible since the specs demands strong defenses given it's melee centric role.

[kpihuss]

Haha that image is amazing.

Yea, I run very defensive but have over 800 Strength before Sigmar's Fist/buffs. I think you will find it much easier to survive in RvR with a more defensive set.
https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 872/armory

I know the post is about WPs but, for the sake of balance, I wonder how DoKs compare to WPs regarding the shield spec since you say that the key is survival.

DoK are built a bit more offensively and, while having undefendable attacks (just for single target essence builders, useless in WB where essence lash is used), they miss a couple key tactics (defensive one + more heals on defense) and also have less defenses from skills (they lack 10% parry).

Having worse defenses, and worse heals, the spec seems much harder to pull off on that class. Playing by the class strong point (offense, crits, etc) seems also not possible since the specs demands strong defenses given it's melee centric role.

DoK/WP shield healers have the almost the same problems right now. If the team fix one, will fix the another one too

[Gargis]

Watched a good amount of your videos and you accurately describe the short comings of the spec.

Its worse than you think though, you trade a spec that scales poorly from 6s, to one where you don't have the gcd's to even cleanse on cd.

Perhaps one of the strongest attributes of DOK and WP is to grp cleanse and you can't even take advantage of it. Seriously, stop wasting your time with the spec.

Its 6s only now, and no amount of proving its poor scaling will change anything. This is by design.

[Tesq]

Just giving my two cent, but the approach of the shield dok/wp was wrong from the beginning. From early discussion it was clear that to play into a oRVR enviroment, pre-shield, you were required to play aoe detaunt and, at the time, you could had it up 100% of the time. By requiring you to hit in melee you either had to get a permanent kind of passive detunat / dmg reduction, always active, that do not stack with guard, to not take a dps guard slot (in fact dev wanted to make a small scale melee healer and not a rvr melee healer).

What i suggested at the time on the forum was:
-to scrap totaly the currently idea of introducing shields
-change active 50% detaunt into a 30% passive detaunt to be placed onto the old armor buff ( which do not stack with guard and only bigger apply)
-nerf range of group healing of dok/wp so to force them to be front liners (when said 30% passive detaunt active).
-and fix melee healing to always heals maximung regardless of the dmg mitigation (this is the case right now if i not mistake).
-work so that when speccing for rvr you could use a mix of cast and melee healing depending on the sich.
-base melee healing factor to scale 100% only on willpower and not strenght, this would had prevented the classes to contribute to the dmg of the group making them op in small scales ( which it in fact was the case for a serious ammount of time at the time...and i dont know the current meta sich since i've been away from almost 2 years).

This would had give dok/wp:
-guard autonomy
-relative immunity to disarm/silenec
-both being able and forced to front line if it wanted the 30% passive detaunt.
-controllable and scalable healing output

At that point dev would had just need to fix melee healing output.

A bandaid could/would be change hardly concession to not impact shields healers so that they get at least 15% dmg reduction to be able to front line, or to change stacking rules to what they were on live so that healing debuff from renown + tactics dont stack. For example: my dok in live pre shut down, was running full hardly concession + murterous intent tactic, but only recived the 20% healing reduction and nto 20%15%= 35. Maybe some shenaningans like that can be find.

[Mortgrimm]

What if ...
Get rid of shield. Make middle (melee group healer with low dmg) and right tree 2h (pure dps with low heal, only st), left tree book.
Let the healing abilities in middle tree scale with willpower instead of str.
Give the middle tree healing a dmg part or requirement to hit someone in 5-10ft range.
This will prevent 2h dps to take the extra healing cause it doesn´t scale with str anymore. Also it has no point for book priest cause they need to be in close combat.
The double heal debuff is a death sentence in this build. Maybe rethink this.
And if u add the suggestions Tesq made ...
This just came up as i thought how to separate all 3 builds.