A reflection on stealth classes

[Stinkyweed]

Woot! Killing tanks, my favorite past time and targets! They're always brazenly overextending without a care in the world...and I'll be ready.

[Farrul]

https://www.twitch.tv/daewuur/clip/Sass ... IW2hdrAehh

This is vs a fully geared tank. Imagine how it feels for cloth healers that have had armor tallies and pots reduced. Just criminal.

Keep in mind that WE is only toying with the tank since she seems to respects the duel & the player, can at any point just stagger him for 6/s and reset/ or stealth.

Hence the imbalance of having def/regen characters but with superior escape tools compared to anyone else.

[nat3s]

https://www.twitch.tv/daewuur/clip/Sass ... IW2hdrAehh

This is vs a fully geared tank. Imagine how it feels for cloth healers that have had armor tallies and pots reduced. Just criminal.

Keep in mind that WE is only toying with the tank since she seems to respects the duel & the player, can at any point just stagger him for 6/s and reset/ or stealth.

Hence the imbalance of having def/regen characters but with superior escape tools compared to anyone else.

And Daewur isn't full regen and got WE to 40%... If he was full regen he'd have won that. Apples to oranges.

If a WE cannot kill offensive geared tanks, then what do they have left for targets? How often do non regen specs and non offensive tanks roam solo? Tough enough for a WE/WH to find a fight as it is + as I mentioned before, if there is no sense of danger from a WH/WE in the lakes, then roaming solo doesn't really feel impactful, would be like removing full loot pvp from Albion / Eve, you need that sense of risk... After all you're risking literally nothing in RoR compared to those other games with full loot drops.

[tazdingo]

yea that's not an extreme example ib, bg and chosen full def/regen specced can handle 3 stealthers at once, chosen maybe 4. you won't kill any but if you play properly they can't kill you

[Pahakukka]

yea that's not an extreme example ib, bg and chosen full def/regen specced can handle 3 stealthers at once, chosen maybe 4. you won't kill any but if you play properly they can't kill you

There is always option to go 80parry/redarpen high regen and just weather down every opponent. But if everyone does that it will be the end of this niche. I recently made def engi clip, you can check it if you want a taste iofdef/def duels.

Spoiler: it takes a while and nobody dies

[saupreusse]

yea that's not an extreme example ib, bg and chosen full def/regen specced can handle 3 stealthers at once, chosen maybe 4. you won't kill any but if you play properly they can't kill you

There is always option to go 80parry/redarpen high regen and just weather down every opponent. But if everyone does that it will be the end of this niche. I recently made def engi clip, you can check it if you want a taste iofdef/def duels.

Spoiler: it takes a while and nobody dies

Exactly. This also one of the reasons why I am so against defensive stacking on anything but shield tanks. 80% party/disrupt/dodge is absurd in a game where you can only get around 30% strikethrough at max.

[Farrul]

If a WE cannot kill offensive geared tanks, then what do they have left for targets? How often do non regen specs and non offensive tanks roam solo? Tough enough for a WE/WH to find a fight as it is + as I mentioned before, if there is no sense of danger from a WH/WE in the lakes, then roaming solo doesn't really feel impactful, would be like removing full loot pvp from Albion / Eve, you need that sense of risk... After all you're risking literally nothing in RoR compared to those other games with full loot drops.

Look at the WH, that's how a stealth class should behave, i.e squishy but deadly with CD's for protection. The issue with Def WE is that she is passively tanky and can sustain and brawl it out like a tank class. That's not balanced with the rest of her toolkit in mind.

This creates so many situations in game where Def we's get away from situations in 1vsx no other class can, including WH since they're squishy glass cannons by comparison.

So, tanks being tanky does not justify a WE(stealth dps class) being tanky in order to beat them. She should be able to of course, but in a way that makes sense for this archetype.

[nat3s]

If a WE cannot kill offensive geared tanks, then what do they have left for targets? How often do non regen specs and non offensive tanks roam solo? Tough enough for a WE/WH to find a fight as it is + as I mentioned before, if there is no sense of danger from a WH/WE in the lakes, then roaming solo doesn't really feel impactful, would be like removing full loot pvp from Albion / Eve, you need that sense of risk... After all you're risking literally nothing in RoR compared to those other games with full loot drops.

Look at the WH, that's how a stealth class should behave, i.e squishy but deadly with CD's for protection. The issue with Def WE is that she is passively tanky and can sustain and brawl it out like a tank class. That's not balanced with the rest of her toolkit in mind.

This creates so many situations in game where Def we's get away from situations in 1vsx no other class can, including WH since they're squishy glass cannons by comparison.

So, tanks being tanky does not justify a WE(stealth dps class) being tanky in order to beat them. She should be able to of course, but in a way that makes sense for this archetype.

Did you just say WH deadly?! I exclusively solo roam and WHs are my bread and butter, can be full sov/tri with fort/bl/armour pen gun, it doesn't matter, they're free renown.

I think you're viewing it from your lens running strictly offensive setups with high crit/primary stat, but that's a woeful setup for solo play. To someone geared like that, you might get the mistaken impression that WHs are deadly I guess.

[Sinisterror]

If a WE cannot kill offensive geared tanks, then what do they have left for targets? How often do non regen specs and non offensive tanks roam solo? Tough enough for a WE/WH to find a fight as it is + as I mentioned before, if there is no sense of danger from a WH/WE in the lakes, then roaming solo doesn't really feel impactful, would be like removing full loot pvp from Albion / Eve, you need that sense of risk... After all you're risking literally nothing in RoR compared to those other games with full loot drops.

Look at the WH, that's how a stealth class should behave, i.e squishy but deadly with CD's for protection. The issue with Def WE is that she is passively tanky and can sustain and brawl it out like a tank class. That's not balanced with the rest of her toolkit in mind.

This creates so many situations in game where Def we's get away from situations in 1vsx no other class can, including WH since they're squishy glass cannons by comparison.

So, tanks being tanky does not justify a WE(stealth dps class) being tanky in order to beat them. She should be able to of course, but in a way that makes sense for this archetype.

Witch elf specs for Witchbrew Defensive because the game literally begs you to do it. If you are playing offensive spec you probably are not taking witchbrew because it's dmg is not increased by Taste of Blood or Flanking + It cannot do critical dmg. So they force you to use Frenzied Mayhem(Which they should revert to be More crit when having 1-5 Frenzies to 3-15% Crit increase) because all the ways of doing dmg with WB is blocked, except one tactic.

RoR.builders - White Lion This spec is blocked in RoR because it gives great option how to deal with Wl pet issues. When it dies you do 75% more dmg for 10s because Loner+Revenge tactics could be used with pet crit tactic, you cant slot them in RoR for some "good" reason. Leonine Frenzy should also crit like WB! Even more so imo, because it is pet path 13pts ability, and pet is the WL's crit mechanic, so it not critting does not make any sense to me.

Also currently Wl is spinning and doing 2k crits to anyone close. When Riposte(tactic) critted and had 1s Icd, it never critted for more than 1k like with Witchbrew or Leonine Frenzy even when they did crit. So whats the problem?

[Farrul]

Did you just say WH deadly?! I exclusively solo roam and WHs are my bread and butter, can be full sov/tri with fort/bl/armour pen gun, it doesn't matter, they're free renown.

I think you're viewing it from your lens running strictly offensive setups with high crit/primary stat, but that's a woeful setup for solo play. To someone geared like that, you might get the mistaken impression that WHs are deadly I guess.

I am referring to how the ''assassin'' type of class is supposed to behave if balance is to be considered.

But thanks for pointing it out so clearly how far off from a good spot the balance currently is, of course the solution is not to make WH like a def WE but vice versa.

Then work on improving both classes from there in a context which makes sense for their archetype/toolkit.