BW and upcoming dps patch

[Sever1n]

Yeh my mistake about when i wrote reverting parry patch. There was clear disbalance there and it should be done. 1k ws staking slays/chopas with bonus parry from dualwieding wasnt ok, and if i remember IB could boost it even higher for oatfriend. 80%parry tanks wasnt ok eather, especially in case where dps literally dont have counterstat boost mechanic to that exept rampage. Lvl of parry staking should be redused.
Im still curious how much parry 2h chosen can achieve though.
From what i feel when i play on heals now, that total lvl of pressure is really high now compared to what it used to be, and its a good thing cos melle blob of parry stakers bonking parry into each other faces its just stupid and boring.

But in case of mages we come to magic mirror of that. Heals and tanks can reach lvl of disrupt where they can just stand infront of mage negating everything. And new formula works against mages cos those who dont have staked disrupts started randomly disrupt bis mages with high striketrough, but on other side mages cannot normally penetrate 2/3 of targets. In case of st sork/bw that rely on busrt rotation it leaded to facepalm situation. I was lvling sork that moment, and afterpatch party was shock for me how class changed in bad way.

I realise that people should have ways to defend from mages nukes, but not to the point where they can ignore them completely. And mages should have tools that allow them penetrate those defences. At this point WP can just get guard and hold the line from tank and watch sork just having a stroke from disrupts and backlashes. That is not ok, and need to be fixed asap.

[normanis]

or give back those 5crit from 100 comb/dark
and bw need aoe knock down not aoe knock back

honestly i disagree. in rvr people get punted/kicked all times so woud be a useless spell given that all are almost anytime immune

well aoe knock down should be similar to mara aoe knock down( to balance sides)

[Sinisterror]

or give back those 5crit from 100 comb/dark
and bw need aoe knock down not aoe knock back

honestly i disagree. in rvr people get punted/kicked all times so woud be a useless spell given that all are almost anytime immune

well aoe knock down should be similar to mara aoe knock down( to balance sides)

To balance sides by mirroring is not the way to go. Pounce/Ranged KD used to be order only abilities. Aoe melee KD only for destro. Dps healer specs had the only 50% aoe heal debuff tactics(Rp/Zeal/Dok). Single target pull existed for both sides, on same classes that had Pounce/Melee aoe KD. Both sides had access to aoe pull 75ft in any direction, engi/magus pull.

That is the way to balance the sides, both sides having access to certain super powerful abilities( Like Self resurrection/50% aoe hd tactic and aoe pull) Then classes get to have something unique that nobody else has = Bringing SOMETHING no matter what it is to the mix instead of everyone having the same abilities.

Order used to have 2 magical dmg tanks Swordmaster and Kotbs with Mighty soul tactic had 50% magic dmg 50% phys dmg. Destro had chosen magic dmg tank. And this is completely fair, because Destro has Magus and order has Engineer which was 50% Physical dmg/50% Magic dmg(And access to Autoattack that magus doesnt)

Nowadays there is so much "mirroring" that Dok/Wp get shield. Most powerful only tank thing and it should remain that way. Same goes for WH/WE having access to Charge is a big NOPE in my eyes. Balance in War Aor vs RoR now, Aor Wins in every category. Fun, Unique, Balance and Purpose. This is due to many things, but whyyy wouuld you change the game to be 20-25% Slower and changing Combat formula's completely?

[normanis]

honestly i disagree. in rvr people get punted/kicked all times so woud be a useless spell given that all are almost anytime immune

well aoe knock down should be similar to mara aoe knock down( to balance sides)

To balance sides by mirroring is not the way to go. Pounce/Ranged KD used to be order only abilities. Aoe melee KD only for destro. Dps healer specs had the only 50% aoe heal debuff tactics(Rp/Zeal/Dok). Single target pull existed for both sides, on same classes that had Pounce/Melee aoe KD. Both sides had access to aoe pull 75ft in any direction, engi/magus pull.

That is the way to balance the sides, both sides having access to certain super powerful abilities( Like Self resurrection/50% aoe hd tactic and aoe pull) Then classes get to have something unique that nobody else has = Bringing SOMETHING no matter what it is to the mix instead of everyone having the same abilities.

Order used to have 2 magical dmg tanks Swordmaster and Kotbs with Mighty soul tactic had 50% magic dmg 50% phys dmg. Destro had chosen magic dmg tank. And this is completely fair, because Destro has Magus and order has Engineer which was 50% Physical dmg/50% Magic dmg(And access to Autoattack that magus doesnt)

Nowadays there is so much "mirroring" that Dok/Wp get shield. Most powerful only tank thing and it should remain that way. Same goes for WH/WE having access to Charge is a big NOPE in my eyes. Balance in War Aor vs RoR now, Aor Wins in every category. Fun, Unique, Balance and Purpose. This is due to many things, but whyyy wouuld you change the game to be 20-25% Slower and changing Combat formula's completely?

squig also haas pounce , bw has only have m2 what aoe nuke sorc didnt get it? sw and witch also get pounces. sw get ini debuff squig also need it. sw has lower hdebuff gues who have also hdebuff just higher in tree. and so on. ib has 2h knock down bg 2h also need.
i dont see why bw cant get aoe knock down and slayer cant get aoe pull. clases is already mirrored in ror and ''' both factions should stay unique'' sentence is already same as beating dead mule.
my purpuses about slayer and bw is just make tham spot in wb. not because of u are gleader or are bis geared . or nerf white lion (increase ap cost and make wl cicrcle same as mara wrecking ball 180degree)

[Sinisterror]

well aoe knock down should be similar to mara aoe knock down( to balance sides)

To balance sides by mirroring is not the way to go. Pounce/Ranged KD used to be order only abilities. Aoe melee KD only for destro. Dps healer specs had the only 50% aoe heal debuff tactics(Rp/Zeal/Dok). Single target pull existed for both sides, on same classes that had Pounce/Melee aoe KD. Both sides had access to aoe pull 75ft in any direction, engi/magus pull.

That is the way to balance the sides, both sides having access to certain super powerful abilities( Like Self resurrection/50% aoe hd tactic and aoe pull) Then classes get to have something unique that nobody else has = Bringing SOMETHING no matter what it is to the mix instead of everyone having the same abilities.

Order used to have 2 magical dmg tanks Swordmaster and Kotbs with Mighty soul tactic had 50% magic dmg 50% phys dmg. Destro had chosen magic dmg tank. And this is completely fair, because Destro has Magus and order has Engineer which was 50% Physical dmg/50% Magic dmg(And access to Autoattack that magus doesnt)

Nowadays there is so much "mirroring" that Dok/Wp get shield. Most powerful only tank thing and it should remain that way. Same goes for WH/WE having access to Charge is a big NOPE in my eyes. Balance in War Aor vs RoR now, Aor Wins in every category. Fun, Unique, Balance and Purpose. This is due to many things, but whyyy wouuld you change the game to be 20-25% Slower and changing Combat formula's completely?

squig also haas pounce , bw has only have m2 what aoe nuke sorc didnt get it. sw and witch also get pounces. sw get ini debuff squig also need it. sw has lower hdebuff gues who have also hdebuff just higher in tree. and so on. ib has 2h knock down bg 2h also need.
i dont see why bw cant get aoe knock down and slayer cant get aoe pull. clases is already mirrored in ror and ''' both factions should stay unique'' sentence is already same as beating dead mule.

Everything you said was kind of my point. And i dont care if im beating a dead mule when saying that we NEED this game staying as unique as possible. Its just sad when all the unique play styles are just mirrored in " balancing " the game. But PvP was so much more rewardin and based on skill In Original WAR AoR vs Current RoR. No question.

[georgehabadasher]

Agreed, the real beauty of this game and part of the reason for its success and longevity is the incredible accomplishment of creating unique-feeling classes while also maintaining good balance. In that way, it's similar to DotA and Starcraft: Brood War, a true work of game design art.

[diedrake]

Playing a bw now, its fun as heck to play, but i agree id love to see AoR version of the BW again, as there was a reason to target him/her first or destro grps just melted. I am fine with the class being terrible in solo.

[Bozzax]

Agreed, the real beauty of this game and part of the reason for its success and longevity is the incredible accomplishment of creating unique-feeling classes while also maintaining good balance.

Balance isn’t good btw dps classes (pop graphs tell the story)it is what this thread is all about. Not even mirrors are balanced BW is better in most contexts solo/3man/6man(maybe not here)/wb/blobband/zerg surfin.

The unique classes pipe dream you talk about don’t work when some dps class uniquely outperform others across the board and in all contexts.

The balance ppl that played these jack-of-all-trades simply did away with all downsides.

Not to mention the dev that I don’t dare to summon by name that buffed stealthers when he was kited.

The double standards when it comes to balancing is mind blowing.

At this point i just continue to be a solo bw enjoyer and lull at 60% of the mdps players enjoying the easy way. However i won’t buy in to the game is balanced because it isn’t

[Bozzax]

Deep Analysis: DPS Classes in Top 5 Skirmishes

And lets not focus on destruction being on top bc it varies


To compare DPS fairly, I reviewed the top 5 large skirmishes (last week).
Metrics considered: damage, death blows (DBs), kill damage, deaths, and efficiency (DBs per 1M dmg).
Guild clustering is used as a proxy for whether a WB was organized.

---

Class-by-Class Findings

Choppa
- Damage: ~2.0–2.3M
- DBs: 59–93
- Kill dmg: ~760k–1.07M
- Deaths: 8–15
- Efficiency: 27–41 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Top finisher, consistently converts pressure into kills.

Marauder
- Damage: 1.6–2.7M
- DBs: 64–70 typical
- Kill dmg: ~785k–964k
- Deaths: 5–15
- Efficiency: 25–40 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Just behind Choppa; strong kill conversion with good survivability.

White Lion
- Damage: 1.0–2.0M
- DBs: 35–55
- Kill dmg: 600k–900k
- Deaths: 5–12
- Efficiency: 25–35 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: High ceiling in strong setups, but more variable.

Bright Wizard
- Damage: 1.2–1.8M typical
- DBs: 40–59 (outliers higher but with many deaths)
- Kill dmg: ~500k–650k
- Deaths: 2–28 (!)
- Efficiency: 27–39 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: When supported, very strong (e.g. 59 DBs / 2 deaths). Without support, extremely fragile.

Sorcerer
- Damage: 1.7–2.6M
- DBs: 27–60
- Kill dmg: 450k–662k
- Deaths: 7–12
- Efficiency: 13–23 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Raw damage leaders, but least efficient at turning damage into kills.

Shadow Warrior
- Damage: ~1.2–1.8M
- DBs: 20–40
- Kill dmg: ~400k–600k
- Deaths: 4–9
- Efficiency: 18–25 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Mid-tier, steady but rarely dominant.

Squig Herder
- Damage: ~1.2–1.8M
- DBs: 20–40
- Kill dmg: ~400k–600k
- Deaths: 4–9
- Efficiency: 18–25 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Similar to SW; reliable but not top-tier impact.

Engineer
- Example (Gadeet, nerv): 2.82M dmg / 94 DBs / 1.27M kill dmg / 35 deaths
- Efficiency: ~33 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: In large organized fights, can outperform BWs and rival top melee DPS, though with higher deaths.

---

Ranking by Impact (DBs + kill dmg + survivability)

1. Choppa – best across damage, DBs, kill dmg.
2. Marauder – close behind Choppa, strong conversion.
3. White Lion – strong in organized play, more variable.
4. Bright Wizard – can excel when supported, fragile otherwise.
5. Engineer – situational but can spike very high in blobs.
6. Sorcerer – high raw dmg but lowest kill conversion efficiency.
7. Shadow Warrior – mid-tier, consistent but not decisive.
8. Squig Herder – steady, similar to SW.

---

Patterns
- Melee (Choppa/Mara) dominate both raw output and kill efficiency.
- White Lion strong but inconsistent.
- BW has a high ceiling with support but also the greatest fragility.
- Sorc excels in raw damage but consistently underperforms in kill impact.
- SW/SH are mid-tier fillers.
- Engineer is a wild card — can outperform casters when stacked.

[nocturnalguest]

Spoiler:

Deep Analysis: DPS Classes in Top 5 Skirmishes

And lets not focus on destruction being on top bc it varies


To compare DPS fairly, I reviewed the top 5 large skirmishes (last week).
Metrics considered: damage, death blows (DBs), kill damage, deaths, and efficiency (DBs per 1M dmg).
Guild clustering is used as a proxy for whether a WB was organized.

---

Class-by-Class Findings

Choppa
- Damage: ~2.0–2.3M
- DBs: 59–93
- Kill dmg: ~760k–1.07M
- Deaths: 8–15
- Efficiency: 27–41 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Top finisher, consistently converts pressure into kills.

Marauder
- Damage: 1.6–2.7M
- DBs: 64–70 typical
- Kill dmg: ~785k–964k
- Deaths: 5–15
- Efficiency: 25–40 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Just behind Choppa; strong kill conversion with good survivability.

White Lion
- Damage: 1.0–2.0M
- DBs: 35–55
- Kill dmg: 600k–900k
- Deaths: 5–12
- Efficiency: 25–35 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: High ceiling in strong setups, but more variable.

Bright Wizard
- Damage: 1.2–1.8M typical
- DBs: 40–59 (outliers higher but with many deaths)
- Kill dmg: ~500k–650k
- Deaths: 2–28 (!)
- Efficiency: 27–39 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: When supported, very strong (e.g. 59 DBs / 2 deaths). Without support, extremely fragile.

Sorcerer
- Damage: 1.7–2.6M
- DBs: 27–60
- Kill dmg: 450k–662k
- Deaths: 7–12
- Efficiency: 13–23 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Raw damage leaders, but least efficient at turning damage into kills.

Shadow Warrior
- Damage: ~1.2–1.8M
- DBs: 20–40
- Kill dmg: ~400k–600k
- Deaths: 4–9
- Efficiency: 18–25 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Mid-tier, steady but rarely dominant.

Squig Herder
- Damage: ~1.2–1.8M
- DBs: 20–40
- Kill dmg: ~400k–600k
- Deaths: 4–9
- Efficiency: 18–25 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: Similar to SW; reliable but not top-tier impact.

Engineer
- Example (Gadeet, nerv): 2.82M dmg / 94 DBs / 1.27M kill dmg / 35 deaths
- Efficiency: ~33 DBs per 1M dmg
- Pattern: In large organized fights, can outperform BWs and rival top melee DPS, though with higher deaths.

---

Ranking by Impact (DBs + kill dmg + survivability)

1. Choppa – best across damage, DBs, kill dmg.
2. Marauder – close behind Choppa, strong conversion.
3. White Lion – strong in organized play, more variable.
4. Bright Wizard – can excel when supported, fragile otherwise.
5. Engineer – situational but can spike very high in blobs.
6. Sorcerer – high raw dmg but lowest kill conversion efficiency.
7. Shadow Warrior – mid-tier, consistent but not decisive.
8. Squig Herder – steady, similar to SW.

---

Patterns
- Melee (Choppa/Mara) dominate both raw output and kill efficiency.
- White Lion strong but inconsistent.
- BW has a high ceiling with support but also the greatest fragility.
- Sorc excels in raw damage but consistently underperforms in kill impact.
- SW/SH are mid-tier fillers.
- Engineer is a wild card — can outperform casters when stacked.

Thats why i dont use any semiopen and open AI, dont wanna teach them without being paid fixing their halucinations. At least turn it into fact check mode instead of creating semantic cr*p.