Archetype: Rock < Paper < Scissor <<< Atom Bomb

[Grock]

Yes modern MMOs tried to push the philosophy of "You can play whatever you want", and all of them failed terribly about it.

This is not what we were talking about.

We were talking about importance of solo play, not build freedom. In MMOs your goal should be that every class must be able to participate in every core facet of the game to a full extent. This doesn't mean being popular meta choice.
In WAR this relates to warband play, group play and solo play and group dungeons.
You could also further break it down into scenarios, open RvR, keep sieges, city fights and so on because the focus changes a bit.

Whatever other mmos tried, failed or succeeded in terms of build freedom is a different topic whatsoever.
And frankly WAR always offered a lot of freedom as well - dedicated support classes being able to build into a dps was pretty cool idea back in 2009. And the fact that now in 2025 stealth assassin/ambushers have been running straight up semi-tank bruiser type builds for the past few years is a testament to WAR's freedom of buildcrafting
But again, that is a different topic.

[gersy]

[Shieldslam]

in 1 v 1 situations

You summoned the blobbing circus with that part. Out come the "1v1 doesn't matter" clowns from everywhere.

Truth is, in the end there are just certain classes which simply enjoy the privilege of being overtuned beyond words in a solo setting. There is no balance anymore, it's all just a mess and not the fun experimental kind where anything more or less can work. The numbers and abilities in this game simply do not add up at this point, there is no excuse for dps healers having that much healing (even with the -heal tactic), being able to stack parry skyhigh without sacrificing too much dmg, Chosen/SM/WE completely ignoring weapon skill stat and still having meaningful dps because of magical dmg, etc. There is nothing more dreadful than walking after a ranged class kiting you knowing there is absolutely zero you can do about it, except for being kited while also aware of the fact that even if you manage to reach them their healing output will more or less nullify any damage you do anyway or in the case of SW/SH they just disengage via punt(s). It's almost equally annoying to attack a tank or generally defensive build and seeing their hp regenerate up rather quickly again. The game is simply not fair and some people decide to abuse that without any shame.

There is no 1v1 scene anymore, nobody has any honor or dignity - not even solos themselves ironically. You have entire WBs chasing you for a solid minute or longer, groups, even duos or trios, everyone rolls over you. Same for class/build variety in small scale: countless deftard WE's running around (often in groups too), parry stacking builds, AM/Shaman and obviously the mega tryhards with their defensive Magus you can barely scratch while ticking down from dots. Mix in a few full regen Tanks and there you go. If you're VERY lucky you might run into one of those mysterious Monstro Maras who developed the incredible strategy of winning by boring you to death. See a common factor here?

Funny story actually, a few days ago I was streaming privately for a few friends interested in trying out RoR when I mentioned that I basically just solo roam on my Tank, in 4 hours I haven't had a single engaging 1v1 fight. Guess what I ran into? One (1) single WE who wasn't deftard spec out of ~20, countless Magus/Shamans, kite groups, tank/dps/heal trio, and obviously entire WBs chasing me. I was asked repeatedly why I'm wasting my time in this game because even watching it was dreadful for them.

Strange though, being told constantly that 1v1 isn't part of the game yet here we are having a new thread about solo'ing from different people every week. Really makes you think. Two entire classes are designed for solo, one of which got their infamous build essentially removed a long time ago because it was too strong (who cares if solo doesn't matter?), but let's just entirely disregard those and pretend only blobbing matters.

[siglade]

DPS is bottom-floor in what way? Because in a group-environment certainly not, and I think we have a really good variety of careers and specs that are very viable nowadays, even competitive.

In a sense of DPS relying a lot on tank-healer to kill and also being countered by enemy tank-heal. DPS performance is all based on the rest (ofc player skill too but alone he won't do much).

You summoned the blobbing circus with that part. Out come the "1v1 doesn't matter" clowns from everywhere.

Truth is, in the end there are just certain classes which simply enjoy the privilege of being overtuned beyond words in a solo setting. There is no balance anymore, it's all just a mess and not the fun experimental kind where anything more or less can work. The numbers and abilities in this game simply do not add up at this point, there is no excuse for dps healers having that much healing (even with the -heal tactic), being able to stack parry skyhigh without sacrificing too much dmg, Chosen/SM/WE completely ignoring weapon skill stat and still having meaningful dps because of magical dmg, etc. There is nothing more dreadful than walking after a ranged class kiting you knowing there is absolutely zero you can do about it, except for being kited while also aware of the fact that even if you manage to reach them their healing output will more or less nullify any damage you do anyway or in the case of SW/SH they just disengage via punt(s). It's almost equally annoying to attack a tank or generally defensive build and seeing their hp regenerate up rather quickly again. The game is simply not fair and some people decide to abuse that without any shame.

There is no 1v1 scene anymore, nobody has any honor or dignity - not even solos themselves ironically. You have entire WBs chasing you for a solid minute or longer, groups, even duos or trios, everyone rolls over you. Same for class/build variety in small scale: countless deftard WE's running around (often in groups too), parry stacking builds, AM/Shaman and obviously the mega tryhards with their defensive Magus you can barely scratch while ticking down from dots. Mix in a few full regen Tanks and there you go. If you're VERY lucky you might run into one of those mysterious Monstro Maras who developed the incredible strategy of winning by boring you to death. See a common factor here?

Funny story actually, a few days ago I was streaming privately for a few friends interested in trying out RoR when I mentioned that I basically just solo roam on my Tank, in 4 hours I haven't had a single engaging 1v1 fight. Guess what I ran into? One (1) single WE who wasn't deftard spec out of ~20, countless Magus/Shamans, kite groups, tank/dps/heal trio, and obviously entire WBs chasing me. I was asked repeatedly why I'm wasting my time in this game because even watching it was dreadful for them.

Solo is a personal choice, don't blame other to not play like you want. You can just group up if it's too hard.

It's funny to read no 1v1 scene anymore when it was never the case in first place What you are crying about with wb/party chasing was and will be always the case. People running class/build for solo purpose is the way and that a player choice, you should build your char based on what you do/need. Note that it's true for any content.

[SuperStar]

I don't see any warbands or premade parties without DPS.

Do you?

Or are you talking about 1v1?

This game isn't balanced for 1v1.

I don't understand your problem.

1v1 is very simple math at the end of the day. Do you have enough dmg and how long can you last?

Don't expect balance for 1v1 because the engi would be one of the first to be nerfed. Doesn't the keg heal bother you? Why does the engi dps heal? Why does it have armor and resist buffs when it's dps? Why does it have cc when dps isn't a tank!!!

I hope you can see how strangely self-centered your suggestion was.

DPS tanks and healers who hit hard sacrifice a lot of their defensiveness. Despite this, they are far from true DPS damage. (Same skill, same gear)

If you get rekt by them make a better build for solo.

[Wdova]

I don't see any warbands or premade parties without DPS.

Do you?

Or are you talking about 1v1?

This game isn't balanced for 1v1.

I don't understand your problem.

1v1 is very simple math at the end of the day. Do you have enough dmg and how long can you last?

Don't expect balance for 1v1 because the engi would be one of the first to be nerfed. Doesn't the keg heal bother you? Why does the engi dps heal? Why does it have armor and resist buffs when it's dps? Why does it have cc when dps isn't a tank!!!

I hope you can see how strangely self-centered your suggestion was.

DPS tanks and healers who hit hard sacrifice a lot of their defensiveness. Despite this, they are far from true DPS damage. (Same skill, same gear)

If you get rekt by them make a better build for solo.

Engi would be last in my mind to nerf if we talk about 1v1(Which is non existent anymore in current state of the game). Ranged class with no ranged snare, no ranged KD, no inc/out heal debuff. Engies is no doubt great AOE damage fluffer and zerg/blob wave slider, but nowhere near efficient long/med range killer like SW or BW. Engi wasnt built like that and he supposed to work as a support dps. That why he lack tools to kill effectively, while on other hand he has staggering mine, AOE root, Healing keg, AOE pull and armor/resi buff. As an engi, you wont be at the first possition in DBS or damage in charts, but theyr tools can help in verry critical situations when stagger on healers in backline, extra hot or extra armor/buff can save ppl from getting killed and turn the result of the fight in your party/wb favour.

[Deadpoet]

Y'all keep calling 1v1 a "cherry-picking extreme case of specialized content" and saying that game is about other things as if 90% of all youtube content isn't about solo roaming adventures
Playing solo, whether true 1v1/1vX ganking or following other groups, has always been extremely popular in WAR.

Being able to play on your own terms at any time of the day just makes the game better. You dont have to schedule play sessions with other people, you dont have to wait till someone comes online, you just walk into the zone and have fun, and you're free to step away at any point, coz you dont have a group of people depending on you.

You want a real team-focused game experience? Lock the zones behind matchmaking with a fixed population cap, put every player that joins in into automatically made warband. Just like scenarios.
Open RvR isn't about that. Open RvR is about freedom to engage in it however you want, and playing solo has always been a major part of what makes these games fun, whether it is WAR, Planetside, Guild Wars, ESO or anything else.

not everything needs to be able to do everything and have a chance to win

This is pretty much the exact opposite of the design philosophy of modern MMOs, and they didnt arrive at this point by accident, its what keeps games alive. This isnt 2003 anymore.

This

[Bozzax]

Yes modern MMOs tried to push the philosophy of "You can play whatever you want", and all of them failed terribly about it.

This is not what we were talking about.

We were talking about importance of solo play, not build freedom. In MMOs your goal should be that every class must be able to participate in every core facet of the game to a full extent. This doesn't mean being popular meta choice.
In WAR this relates to warband play, group play and solo play and group dungeons.
You could also further break it down into scenarios, open RvR, keep sieges, city fights and so on because the focus changes a bit.

Whatever other mmos tried, failed or succeeded in terms of build freedom is a different topic whatsoever.
And frankly WAR always offered a lot of freedom as well - dedicated support classes being able to build into a dps was pretty cool idea back in 2009. And the fact that now in 2025 stealth assassin/ambushers have been running straight up semi-tank bruiser type builds for the past few years is a testament to WAR's freedom of buildcrafting
But again, that is a different topic.

I’d add to what Grock said — solo play isn’t just a side activity, it’s one of the pillars that keeps RoR healthy. Sure, WAR is about groups and warbands, but a big share of the community experiences the game first through solo roaming. If that playstyle isn’t viable, those players log off before they ever join premades or warbands.

You can even see it in the content: on YouTube, about 30% of RoR videos are solo roaming and another ~20% are small-group highlights. Twitch streams lean more on warbands (50–60%), but even there 15–20% is solo/premade roaming. If solo play dries up, that whole slice of content and recruitment for the game shrinks with it.

So keeping solo play fun isn’t about turning RoR into an arena or chasing 1v1 perfection. It’s about making sure one of the key entry points into the game stays healthy — because fewer solo roamers means less content, less visibility, and eventually fewer players for the warbands themselves.

[Magusar]

DPS is bottom-floor in what way? Because in a group-environment certainly not, and I think we have a really good variety of careers and specs that are very viable nowadays, even competitive.

DPS Tanks and DPS Healers are also unable to replace actual DPS spots in group play, except for a few cases in small-scale which is the result of the last major rework. DPS Tanks have better reason to complain than anyone else in the game as they have the least amount of, and least important content that they are viable for.

In solo content - yes - most of the DPS is bottom-floor. Personally im ok with that, but i think there is should be one exception - wh/we, because its their spot of "Solo Predators", which worked for them for years.
In 99% of other games, including RPGs, the tank archetype is unnecessary in PvP—they're essentially just DPS with a tank spec for PvE (like WoW). Here, tanks are incorporated into the core system in PvP. A "DPS tank" in dps way has less work to do because, surprisingly, they're primarily a tank, "a lot dps" is work for dps classes. The same can be said about healers, except that healers are relevant in almost all MMOs in PvP.

If you are specifically cherry-picking solo gameplay and 1v1s, which is an extreme case of specialized content, then you will also have to go to extremes to make it viable for yourself.

The main problem with this approach isn't that "then you'll also have to go to extremes to make it viable for yourself," but that Warhammer Online has always been a complex game where you could always get PvP at any level—casual, mid-level, professional (relative KEK), 1v1, 1vX, 6v6, 6vX, 24v24, 24vX, etc. Some of these brackets have been destroyed. Since we're discussing 1v1 here, I personally see two problems with this bracket:
1. The ubiquitous blob, which prevents normal action not only for solo players but also for anything less than a WB. And sometimes even a WB. Everyone stands in one spot in the zone, and in another there's a tumbleweed. And if it don't tumbleweed, you'll most likely be attacked by a WB that's running to join the main blob. That's why the WH/WE ended up on the sidelines of the RVR -they simply have practically nothing to do. Their element is solo ganking, reconnaissance, roaming with a few comrades, 6-man parties or fight 24 vs 24 in ST-party. None of this is needed in today's RVR.
2. Class imbalance and regen stat. While the class imbalance is more or less clear, regeneration is a bit more complicated. This stat may not be bad in itself, but in a game where there's a clear division between archetypes that can greatly stack defense or healing (did you hear about regen Shamans/Ams? About regen tanks?) or both, while maintaining good damage output, while others can't even come close, there will always be major problems in very small fights (1v1). And somehow, regeneration-based builds are always extremely "uncomplex" (I wanted to say "easy," but I thought someone might take offense) - a "kill yourself on me" reflect (riposts combined with parries, reflect potions, weapon procs, specialized skills for some classes), simply spamming 1-3 buttons...It's just some kind of coincidence.

Some classes will be better at it, because the game is not designed for solo and 1v1 content, nor should it be any priority as long as the game is facing major issues with large-scale balance, RvR Campaign Issues, SCs not working etc.

True. But "small" brackets still require attention. Or at least not to harm them, as was the case with 1vs1 regen items.

MMORPGs are not a competitive genre, they are not a MOBA, they are not a fighting game, but an RPG. Some classes will excel at more things than others - but not everything needs to be able to do everything and have a chance to win. Now for what WAR is designed for... which is medium to large scale PvP... every career is perfectly viable, except for WE and WH.

PS.: Even in the case of Witch Hunters, they are actually viable in Warbands, but the reality is that 99% of WHs don't know how to do that and it's not worth the hassle. Even then as far as I know this problem will be fixed with the DPS Rework so even they will have a fix spot.

Honestly, it doesn't sound very good. Firstly, I'm not a fan of the idea that all classes should be everywhere (each class has its own purpose, and that's what makes them important), and secondly, it smells like we're about to buff WH/WE's AoE and nerf their ST potential—yet another erasure of the archetype's uniqueness, which once worked very good before.

[Magusar]

I’d add to what Grock said — solo play isn’t just a side activity, it’s one of the pillars that keeps RoR healthy. Sure, WAR is about groups and warbands, but a big share of the community experiences the game first through solo roaming. If that playstyle isn’t viable, those players log off before they ever join premades or warbands.

Absolutly true. Most new players begin their exploration of the game solo. In my humble opinion (I'm not humble), the incentive to play with others should ideally come from rewards (or rather, the speed of earning them) and the quality of group content, the fun of group content. Not from the idea that solo play is a waste of time and trash. Solo play should simply be playable and at least somewhat fun—not be a waste of time, as it is now.
But first, RVR and scenes.