BW and upcoming dps patch

[jughurta69]

Bw have dispel , stun range , silence, debuff heal , snare etc ... This class doesn’t really have any DPS issues. In theory, it shouldn’t be possible to have both strong CC and high burst at the same time — yet currently, BW does. It might be worth reviewing the specialization trees to ensure that CC, burst, and mobility can’t all be combined within the same build, on both factions

[Magusar]

Good topic.
Regarding the topic starter, I wouldn't expect much. Having played BW since 2008 (with varying intensity; I played not much in 2009-2010 because I didn't like the three-button gameplay that allowed me to burn through a warband in 10-15 seconds, but since 2011, after the rework, I've been playing actively) until the patch with the GCD change, which killed the most important thing about BW/Sorcerer for me—the dynamic gameplay—I realized one thing: the archetype is considered "unfavorable."
Personally, I would like more utilities and more variations in builds and behavior during combat. This can be achieved by reworking the class mechanic (for example, increasing flat damage rather than crit— ror devs don't really like crit, as experience shows). It's also possible to revive the dead part of the BW/Sorcerer concept, which was destroyed on this server—the archetype isn't a pure RDD in all its manifestations(Aoe, st). In AoE, it's more of a melee character with the ability to deal damage at range, while in ST, it's a RDD with the ability to occasionally deal heavy damage (without utility) at melee range. To win, you must skillfully combine these playstyles—otherwise, you'll always lose against good opponents. This is no longer the case in Roar—not because, for example, ST has been buffed and BW/Sorc no longer need to deal melee damage, but because you'll simply die if you try. You won't deal any significant damage, but they'll deal more than reasonable damage to you, including to yourself, and you'll hardly be able to escape the damage zone—there are no tools like odjira, resolute defense, and many others. Simply put, it's pointless now. The risk is 99% simply not worth it.

[Magusar]

And now, on to the discontent (how could we avoid it?).

I already wrote in another thread about why things are this way. Briefly:

- Direct and indirect nerfs specifically to BW/Sork.

- Buffs to all other archetypes and classes, with rare exceptions (Mara and Slayer).

All this for an archetype that falls into the "double-edged sword" category and, even in the live playthrough of the final patch, was "average," i.e., underperforming. And these classes can't deal damage as much as others—otherwise, their disadvantages begin to outweigh their advantages, and they become unnecessary in those same groups. How about characters designed for groups and who lose to other, less demanding archetypes in those same groups? Group-specific classes are unnecessary for 60-70% of the game's group content. Sounds good (no).

Bottom line: while everyone around you is evolving and becoming stronger, you're only degrading, even though you weren't exactly a force to begin with. You start to lag behind, and this lag only gets worse over time. You've become a "standard sword with a flimsy hilt," but you're still holding onto the blade and trying to hit your opponent with that hilt. BW/Sorc have never been in demand in the competitive sector on this server, with very rare exceptions (like the proc bug at the start of T4, Infernal Wave spam). It's always been that way. It's just that many people haven't had, and don't have, access to this "competent sector of the game" due to the high barrier to entry. Everything has been clear there for a long time. It's just that this "degradation" of BW/Sorc has become almost completely visible to everyone, that's all.

[Magusar]

I have literall headache after seeing x4 disrupts on on WP in row. But they still ok in wbs. And BW have 2 tactics to benefit/negate disrupts.

My record is 17 disrupts in a row on DOK. It was in conq era. I even remembered the nickname years later. Begining on "D" and ending on "uckie". Kappa.
Tactics aren't enough. Simply because you have to use tactics, even though they weren't designed to negate disruption. Burn Trought is a tactic for creating tension for tanks (shield M2, shield itself, and HTL) and breaking through the cauldron from WE. Flashfire is a completely meme-worthy tactic that was used in AoE live for trolling and needed a rework (in RoR, they simply nephrified it and, ironically, made it almost mandatory). Secondly, it still doesn't help—the gap between other DPS and disruption is too large—BW/SORC simply aren't designed for this, as everyone would have free disruptions.

[Ahra]

For my part, I love the sorc and the bw...I play them purely in AoE in RvR zones. I like these two classes; they deserve a tiny damage up on their channeled melee abilities because being truly in melee with these two characters without AoE detaunt, mobility, or anti-root/snare, while self-inflicting damage, isn't easy. But really only on Distractous Cascade and Surging Pain for the sorc, and Annihilate and Scorched Earth for the bw—and not a huge up to make them OP, just a slight delve increase on the spell to reward DPSing in melee without taunt or anything. For the rest, honestly, they need no changes from me in AoE.

[Sygma013]

a possible solution would be
1)remove the self damage part (most idiotic mechanic ever seen in a mmorpg)
2)make combuistion and dark magic build slower
3)make it possiblew to build combustion/dark magic ONLY in combat
4)give self dispel to both classes (never understood why sorc has no self dispel and bw does)
5)heal debuff exclusive of DOT spec (like BW one) for sorc
6)make single target build (left tree) a more "Channeled" based tree which builds damage in channeling instead of a perfect timestamp 0.1 seconds
7)make middle tree for both classes more like WoW affliction warlock idea. stack dots and cook people.

[normanis]

or give back those 5crit from 100 comb/dark
and bw need aoe knock down not aoe knock back

[Sygma013]

or give back those 5crit from 100 comb/dark
and bw need aoe knock down not aoe knock back

honestly i disagree. in rvr people get punted/kicked all times so woud be a useless spell given that all are almost anytime immune

[georgehabadasher]

BW/Sorc caught a lot of strays from changes not primarily directed at them.

The change to willpower's disrupt scaling nerfed their ability to apply their rotation on healers and also anyone receiving the str buff from BG/IB, which now also increases willpower by 450(!) at max mechanic. That's 15% disrupt. Add in the disrupt strikethrough changes and they're really struggling.

In addition, Runie/Zealot granted buffs allow people to self-cleanse their rotations, and also provide additional disrupt from willpower. The cleansing from the new Master Rune of Adamant also made it harder for Sorcs specifically.

Their mechanic was directly nerfed from +100%->+80% crit damage at full mechanic and the added crit chance was also reduced.

Tangential rant which should probably be in a different thread:
The standardization was a terrible idea which did nothing to benefit the state of the game and caused imbalances which are still being felt.

In addition to the problems caused by willpower's disrupt scaling, it also messed up melee balance. Tanks who wanted to do damage lost some parry. Most MDPS became more susceptible to CC because they have less parry. WE/WH got a big buff in solo play vs other melees. They have unusually high initiative because of some targeted changes made by a former balance dev. Since they have such high initiative for a DPS class and also don't stack WS, they now have relatively much more parry than other mdps archetypes.

[siglade]

Less proc, more damage/burst and hopefully a new dynamic gameplay (BB/WoP been the only spec is getting old) is what i wish for BW/Sorc

In addition to the problems caused by willpower's disrupt scaling, it also messed up melee balance. Tanks who wanted to do damage lost some parry. Most MDPS became more susceptible to CC because they have less parry. WE/WH got a big buff in solo play vs other melees. They have unusually high initiative because of some targeted changes made by a former balance dev. Since they have such high initiative for a DPS class and also don't stack WS, they now have relatively much more parry than other mdps archetypes.

Not sure what you are talking with 'some targeted changes', they did the right thing. Able to stack WS that gived you defence in top of reaching 80%+ armor pen was stupid. It still remain the best stat for AoE dps and some niche ST class for a good reason.