BW and upcoming dps patch

[nebelwerfer]

It would be nice if their morale cleanse actually gave a worthwhile heal over time and the heal tactic related to sear would be more general, maybe make it heal on crit.

Also the crit career mechani nerf should probably be balanced with a buff, maybe remove the self-inflicting damage would bring it more in line?

[crystl32]

I've been solo roaming on BW (72) for quite some time now.
I would say whats true for BW is in most cases also true for sorc.
What I found is that my old dusty def. magus with 0 crit and 800 int kills a city dummy in 20 seconds, while cooky cutter boiling blood BW whith Toughness Debuff, 50% crit and max Int needs 30 seconds to kill it...however the burst is higher.

In direct comparison, magus has much more utility (interrupt, KB, Slow, Disarm, Aoe KD, Aoe Stagger, Cast direct hit while kiting, self heal, resi buff, massive armour buff (lol) etc.) and BW gets a flacid 2 sec. kd that needs preperation with ignite, at least a slow channel, 10 sec armour buff, cleanse and a silencer....and you can also (FEATURE!!!!) damage yourself.
the latter makes sorc and bw the most unattractive classes for new players imo. i call it the wheel chair class because its quite unfunctional without a heal and a dps while other classes are not as much dependant on them.

while BW has good burst, the burst itself is so obvious most people can easily de-taunt counter it and healers usually prepare for the coming burst. the overall dps is lackluster. if i want to out-dps my magus, I need to go full PVE melee fire ball spam spec.

Draining Burn (very low dmg boost and useless ap-drain on a 20-sec-CD ability lol) and Searing Vitality (low % life-steal) are very awful tactics that cannot compete with other important tactics like resist debuff, boiling blood etc...
i dont have much experience in WB situations (ask bombling for expert opinion ), but wildfire, backdraft and spreading flames look weak to me. i tested spreading flames dmg ticks vs dummies and the numbers are crazy low.

While both classes (BW/Sorc) have their place in wb and groups, i find them unnecessary clunky to play (just holding W and spamming AoE on melee is so much more convenient). the self-damaging part imo is completely superfluous since it adds nothing to the game except that your healer needs to toss you 1 more HoT every once in a while and every solo activity (low level content, pve etc) becomes a chore in comparison to other classes.
Many abilities also have very long cast times and you end up being too stationary. You either have to cancel casting and run away or cancel casting and follow your fleeing enemies a lot.
Middle tree BW is good at kiting though -a potential that shouldn't be underestimated.

I think the class is not strong enough considering its squishiness, or not sturdy enough considering its damage.
A little bit more utility would also make the class more attractive.
both 60-min-buffs feel quite uninspired and boring, especially the defensive one.
just my 2 cents

[nocturnalguest]

both 60-min-buffs feel quite uninspired and boring, especially the defensive one.

Thats solely a mighty reason to bring them into groups currently in 3rd ressurection of proc meta nightmare. This alone justifies their spots.

However as for the rest of your post, thanks for sharing your experience on a truly challenging mode you pick - solo roaming on BW. Ngl, i wanted to try it out too, just dont have enough motivation and reasoning to gear up mine a little bit for this. You surely know what challenge means

Small note, magus also has Close Quarters and can also just spam stuff. Funny fact its gonna be way more efficient then sorc this way. Just like engi will, without any issues, outdamage BW. The biggest issue with engi/magi is that they are not stackable in WB to wreck havoc and they have defensive group wide buff instead of offensive ones on BW/sorc.

Overally great post you did, thanks.

[Grock]

Agree with everything crystl32 said, many abilities and tactics feel underwhelming weak or clunky, theres a ton of proc effects on the class, including tactics, and none of it can crit so it doesn't interact with career mechanic in any meaningful way, which is a strange design to have

But since OP mentioned this isn't a balance topic and because i was thinking about it last few days - I'm gonna say i want a rework to the career mechanic itself for the sake of class fantasy and gameplay.

Lorewise, the concept of BW and Sorc is centered around using dangerous powers that can easily consume the user when overused, so they must exercise caution and maintain certain balance when using these powers or they risk getting too close to the sun and getting burned.

On paper this is represented in game with backlash self damage, but in practice the backlash is ignored for the most part, as long as you have healers. BW/Sorcs happily go all-in to the max overcharge without care, which kind of the exact thing they should not be doing lore-wise if they dont want to become a living nuke.
Another problem with current mechanic and backlash is that theres no clear boundary between the safe level and dangerous level. You get backlash even at low charge, just less often and lower damage. Also the nature of the penalty (self damage) and the ways to counteract it (get healed) are the same across all levels, only changing in intensity, so there's no fundamental difference in how you are supposed to make up for it, so if you already have a way to counteract it (a healer at your side) you might as well go max.

I think a much better representation of the idea is the overheat mechanic from Vermintide - it has clear separation between safe and dangerous levels, gradual power progression(via class passives) as you get hotter and also the ultimate failure state if you overuse the power and reach maximum heat. It puts a lot more emphasis on balancing your use of the magic and being careful about not reaching into dangerous/lethal levels - either by using active vent mechanic to reduce heat or simply swapping to melee weapon for a time while you cool off.

Funnily enough Vermintide heat mechanic looks very similar to Slayer & Choppa Rage mechanic in WAR: it has the same three levels, same red zone where your power maxes out but you also get a penalty (in VT its a movement penalty) and some similarities with venting mechanic as well.
Ironically, BW/Sorc mechanic with its more dynamic forward-minded gameplay, having to actually hit things to gain the resource and not needing to drop your power whenever someone looks your way, and in general being closer to traditional "rage" mechanic from games like WoW or Diablo would fit Slayer/Choppa a lot better! But perhaps without the 'backlash' part.

This deserves its own thread though

Here's a pic i made a couple of days ago (and a bonus tactic idea inspired by old mage talent from WoW)

BW mechanic Sienna.jpg (337.83 KiB) Viewed 76 times