[PTS] Patch Notes 07/09/2025

[Florian90210]

Balance Changes

- Hastened Doom - Wounds debuff reduced from 120 to 100.

This is not fair because other tanks don't need harsh conditions to apply this debuff. Requiring critical hit for a tank is too much.
This tactic needs a bit of rework.

[Omegus]

To devs:

1. 250 Toughness buffs

with the new rules introduced with this patch there is now inconsistency between the Shaman and Rune Priests toughness buff. The Shaman's 250 toughness buff on Do Sumfin Useful is single target so needs a load of GCDs to get it spread, however the Rune Priest's 250 toughness buff on Master Rune of Stability is a group buff.

Shouldn't the RP's buff now be lower than the Shaman's one to reflect the RP's buff being a group buff and the Shaman's buff being single target? I know the aim with the changes to the Master Rune were to give order and destro access to a 240 (now 250) Toughness buff, but that value now breaks the new system.

The new standard buff and debuff values are 100 and 150 for AoE and ST. There are a couple abilities that had buffs and debuffs above the old standard values. For example Exit Wound or the Willpower gained from Brutal Smash. We wanted to keep these special buffs and debuffs roughly the same as before. This also goes for the Toughness buffs from both So Sumfin Useful and Master Rune of Stability.

Firstly, thank you for the replies

For the toughness buff, even though it's maintaining the higher value compared to the new standard 100/150, there is still the situation where a ST buff (Do Sumfin Useful) is granting the same bonus as an AOE buff (Master Rune of Stability). In the OP it says:

"AoE damage and healing abilities do less damage and less healing than their single target counterparts. We are applying the same principle to buffs and debuffs. Single target buffs and debuffs have been made slightly stronger and their AoE versions slightly weaker."

Which is why I was calling out that buff specifically. I understand the flavour of those buffs being stronger, just not the reason why they're both as strong as each other in this patch compared to being something like 250 for the strong ST buffs and 200 for the strong AoE/group buff.

To devs:

2. Kiss of Agony and any other procs with an ICD

Is the 0.25s ICD based on how long it's been since the attaching Witch Elf procced it, or how long it's been since the victim was last affected by Kiss of Agony? If it's the first one then I think that would mean that it would be impossible to proc Kiss of Agony on multiple targets at once. Based on that, should the debuff value be set to match the new standard single-target value rather than new new standard AoE value?

Same applies to any other affected proc with an ICD.

Kiss of Agony has an ICD per target, so it can apply in AoE form. Most procs that apply a debuff should work like that.

If it is now per target then changing it down to the AoE value makes sense. I only asked as prior to taking this extended break I was doing some testing and Ritual of Innervation (before the Zealot rework) would only proc once on an AoE attack rather than once per enemy hit (https://bugs.returnofreckoning.com/view.php?id=23182). This has also affected other abilities in the past such as Kiss of Death not proccing per target on On Your Knees. I've no idea if that's still a thing either as I'm completely out of the loop, just wanted to bring it up in case one thing was not working as expected.

To devs:

3. Single vs multi-resistance buffs

Any thoughts on making some of the single-resistance buff smore attractive by making them stronger than the triple-resist buffs? The differentiation already exists for debuffs where triple-resistance debuffs (Knight/Chosen auras) are weaker than single-resistance debuffs, but for buffs (especially AoE buffs) the bonuses are the same.

This was in the original design together with a distinction between buffs and debuffs. That resulted into three variables and it became kind of messy. So we dediced to go for the simpler option.

Makes sense for this initial pass, but perhaps something to consider in the future once this all settles as it's already in place for the debuffs and helps make the more niche abilities more attractive to use?

[borc1]

remove cd from mara/sw stance.. reward player skill just once instead of **** around pointlessly with buff values..

[Alubert]

I tested the changes on Chosen because it's my main character.
The changes are very cool, as is the whole new knight/chosen concept.
Unfortunately, Chosen is too powerful.
The last Relentless tic hits the construct for 1.6k and the shield (i.e., a very squishy character) for 2.4k.
This is a big exaggeration for tank damage.
Chosen also received spirit damage new dot and cd reduction on Rending Blade.
He has access to Daemonclaw.
Even though he has to abandon auras from mastery trees other than the damage tree.
I warn against this change. I believe that Relentless damage for each aura should be 10% instead of 50%, or the Daemonclaw tactic should be removed.
You can easily have SRT cap, TOU cap, and WOU cap on Chosen. Add to that the new changes, and we have guaranteed, justified complaints from the order.

[Shieldslam]

The changes I'm looking forward to:
-Shaman/AM receiving improvements to their class mechanics

-KOTBS/Chosen finally getting more flavor, they are by far the most boring class gameplay wise so more options is always a great addition.

-BO having reworked "You Wot" back, the class just doesn't feel the same without an ability like that. It fits, should stay and adds a lot of flavor.


The changes I'm worried about:
-Tanks all having the improved punt baseline. I understand it is to an extend annoying having to expend a tactic slot to get it but at the same time giving every tank (besides BG) a better punt is just going to make each one feel even more similar than they already do.

-I am VERY worried about Chosens possible dmg output with the changes, specifically 2h channel and spirit dots. The class already does quite a considerable amount of dmg for how tanky it is and adding onto that might just end up being too much.

-No changes, or rather nerfs, to def WE which is really upsetting. The spec has continued to dominate for a long time. I know 1v1 isn't a focus but having a class run around that is basically impossible to beat for unprepared (WB spec) people and still insanely strong for those who are prepared to fight it. Make the class what it is supposed to be, a stealth assassin. WH/WE should simply have a lot of burst but the counterplay would be surviving that to then turn it around, right now WH functions like that where as WE feels harder to kill than a tank while doing considerable dmg and has stealth/escape tools on top of that. I've noticed many orders these days don't even bother leaving anywhere alone simply due to having no chances against a def WE where as on destro players have a realistic chance (as long as they are geared) to beat a WH who opens up on them from stealth. The WH regen spec was oppressive and got ruined, for a good reason might I add, it's about time this def WE nonsense comes to an end as well.

-SM spirit debuff nerf is not something I agree with, at least not to that extend. Chosen/KOTBS reduce resistances with an aura at all times, no effort required. Every other tank has an armor debuff which obviously is far better than spirit res. SM has no armor debuff and while their spirit res debuff might seem high it's only a 21% increase in damage taken on very few abilities which usually don't have much impact anyway. From 378 to 240, somewhere between half of that would be fine if it even needs to be touched at all considering how rare spirit damage is (apart from SM abilities).

-No WL nerfs is also quite disappointing. The class is overperforming, very clearly, to a point where it's more or less the only viable melee dps option on Order. It's too simple to play, too much reward and honestly boring for both sides at this point.

I genuinely hope I'm wrong about the things I mentioned and there's no reason to be worried.

[Blueagave]

Anyone complaining about specific class changes needs to realize these are general changes. Specific classes will be adjusted like the upcoming DPS patch.

As for the changes, I would have like to see the same logic being applied to shields. Where single target shielding is greater than aoe shields being applied. With a CD increase.

Another thing the devs should keep in mind is requirements. Requirements should increase power levels of things for instance tactics shouldn't be at the same power level as others' base level. Does it require Grudes/Hate? Does it require being up a tech tree? Those things should be more powerful in my opinion because it requires setup or to give up other things. Even cooldowns should be a consideration.

I started to test the changes, started with Chosen and I don't see cooldown being reduced on Rending blade. Withering Blow tooltip also had something like 1000% slow for 0 seconds.

[Aethilmar]

I tested the changes on Chosen because it's my main character.
The changes are very cool, as is the whole new knight/chosen concept.
Unfortunately, Chosen is too powerful.
The last Relentless tic hits the construct for 1.6k and the shield (i.e., a very squishy character) for 2.4k.
This is a big exaggeration for tank damage.
Chosen also received spirit damage new dot and cd reduction on Rending Blade.
He has access to Daemonclaw.
Even though he has to abandon auras from mastery trees other than the damage tree.
I warn against this change. I believe that Relentless damage for each aura should be 10% instead of 50%, or the Daemonclaw tactic should be removed.
You can easily have SRT cap, TOU cap, and WOU cap on Chosen. Add to that the new changes, and we have guaranteed, justified complaints from the order.

I was just on trying out Chosen and none of the aura conditional abilities worked with the auras. Did you have to do anything special to turn it on?

Also, more general feedback, I'm confused as to why the Knight has buffs for "issuing" commands (i.e. turning on auras an encouraging aura rotation) and Chosen just get them for being there.

Also, yes, As Alubert says you put these in and the Chosen will be an absolute monster. These changes are not a lateral move for it. They are pure buffs and its already the most played Destro tank.

I have similar concerns about what this will do for Knight but that class is played just a little more than IB/SM. Both Chosen and Knight were insane powerhouses on live and there was basically no reason (except a couple of niches) to play anything else. I think this is headed in same direction.

[abezverkhiy]

Please stop telling us to stop telling about broken classes because "DPS patch will fix it". Will it or will not we are yet to see. What we see is that the elephant in the room is being ignored but we are lining up values from 240 to 250 and from 120 to 100.

At the same time /5 channel says "LFM tanks/heal/dps and NO WH's". Or ppl encounter a def WE and it kills you leaving the combat with 80% hp. This is what players have been concerned with not lining up debuff values. And this is what has been ignored for years. So please do not tell us to stop complaining about real issues because "some DPS patch will go live some day in future to solve all the problems".

[Zumos]

Thanks for the swift reply and the clarification!

If I may ask one additional thing: Is it intended that "Gift of Khaine" remains a party HoT when now Khaine's Force is an oop heal?


Asking this because in the case of shield WP Exalted Defences offers them an option to further strengthen their oop heals while sDOK seems to lack that.

Gift of Khaine will apply to those healed by Khaine's Force. Tooltip is bugged.

[Farrul]

I tested the changes on Chosen because it's my main character.
The changes are very cool, as is the whole new knight/chosen concept.
Unfortunately, Chosen is too powerful.
The last Relentless tic hits the construct for 1.6k and the shield (i.e., a very squishy character) for 2.4k.
This is a big exaggeration for tank damage.
Chosen also received spirit damage new dot and cd reduction on Rending Blade.
He has access to Daemonclaw.
Even though he has to abandon auras from mastery trees other than the damage tree.
I warn against this change. I believe that Relentless damage for each aura should be 10% instead of 50%, or the Daemonclaw tactic should be removed.
You can easily have SRT cap, TOU cap, and WOU cap on Chosen. Add to that the new changes, and we have guaranteed, justified complaints from the order.

I was just on trying out Chosen and none of the aura conditional abilities worked with the auras. Did you have to do anything special to turn it on?

Also, more general feedback, I'm confused as to why the Knight has buffs for "issuing" commands (i.e. turning on auras an encouraging aura rotation) and Chosen just get them for being there.

Also, yes, As Alubert says you put these in and the Chosen will be an absolute monster. These changes are not a lateral move for it. They are pure buffs and its already the most played Destro tank.

I have similar concerns about what this will do for Knight but that class is played just a little more than IB/SM. Both Chosen and Knight were insane powerhouses on live and there was basically no reason (except a couple of niches) to play anything else. I think this is headed in same direction.

I tested both kotbs/chosen and they all worked. The ''issuing'' command seems to just be confusing wording, have the aura active and the corresponding skills will have the extra listed effect. No need to rotate anything.

As for their performance. I agree Chosen can't go live like this. its insanely powerful. I was previously looking at their Resistance Aura nerf and didn't think much about it. CHosens new dots are all insane, with softcaped str chosen now has 3 x 1k spirit + dots, then add touch of palsry and new relentless effect. Devs forget Chosen is a stat monster with 1k str, 1 k toughness and 10k wounds lol.

For kotbs i like it a lot, obviously not as powerful as Chosen stuff but feels like it is doing dps now, i don't see a balance issue atm but didn't test it much either.

P.S. The ''issuing'' command for Shining blade seems very underpowered though, i didnt notice the extra damage on the dummy. The other effects are all cool.