Degradation of average player skill: why the Scenario system rework is urgently needed

[nocturnalguest]

While I understand what you mean by saying "no premades" I don't think that's generally fair to say. I would assume you say it in the terms of actual skillfull premades existing who use all mechanics, are on discords etc, which is true - not many of them if any at all queue up.

It's more of a natural result of the years of skill degradation that Only has described, that now if you make a group of 6 - play the correct careers, use aoe builds, guard each other, that is already an overwhelming force against 90% of the opposition that will queue against you. There are also still massive skill gaps between /5 lfg premades too.

The average skill level has dropped so drastically, that unfortunately there is definitely a problem of solo players vs premades at the moment - and It needs to be addressed + also implement a comeback mechanic as you mention, I fully agree, but unless that comeback mechanic is brutally advantageous, I am not sure it's even enough with the current discrepancy.

I have already talked with Only about this in length in the past - I think this problem is so massive already, that it will need months if not years to fix the skill level gradually.

Well yes, you understood me correct. In regards to making group of 6 yes, thats exactly how you describe, there are no longer A teams of e.g 12" or someone else who will still beat the sh** out of your 6 as if you were just caught RvR flagged in t2 and required "quality" of your 6 dropped big times. So I do obviously agree with general statement "The average skill level has dropped so drastically".

What i may not know currently is how "solo player" of 2025 looks like as i havent been active for quite some time myself. But! Ill try to rephrase my point to something along such lines - "i dont think its currently possible to drastically change "skill" situation so need to focus on other things where fewier dissagreements between community and team". And those are obvious imo - MM (agree with everyone here, wont help and solely solve the issue), guards, barriers etc. All those actions will not fix things by themselves, but they have to be done to reach opposite snowballing effect which will in time turn things around!

Kinda like this

Edit&P.S. yeah, ive read your addition to a post. Good example

[shoelessHN]

Remove barriers, add guards, reward renown for any kill.

Revert to click to capture objectives.

Reward 1-2 crests for capturing objectives with some kind of cooldown or diminishing return for the same BO so people don't just trade caps.

Add more scenario based quests for gear (i.e. win 250 scenarios, get full vanq). Win 500 scs get an Anthema weapon.

Stop scenarios from popping 4v4 (looking at you phoenix gate).

If scenarios are lopsided right now, you're better off running into the lakes solo and capturing a BO and maybe getting a kill or assisting in a kill and you'll get 5x the renown and crests you would have from spending 10mins being farmed. At least you get zone contribution and a bag roll from doing that.

[Hazmy]

Additionally, another important point that I would direct towards the Balance Team personally is that I think if Midtier will remain merged from 16-39 - then I think the entrance into viable Career Builds need to be drastically lowered.

Most careers in my experience truly open up their potential around level 28-30, with their Mastery Trees, and then snowball from there. Until then it's kind of awkward to play many, or don't have access to proper AoE etc.

If Midtier remains as it is, I think Career progression has to be looked over very carefully to counter snowballing SCs, as level 17s and 20s against level 30+ players will have a significant disadvantage even with bolster.

When I say this, I mean similar changes like was done to earlier Guard, Charge, Revive and so on.

Then I didn't even mention the Tier 1 Twink Players who live and breath ganking lowbie players with absolutely broken and unfair careers due to their early access to certain CCs or Utility. We all know who these players are - could say they like to Rip and tear into new players

[saupreusse]

Is that a problem? I think it is - should we stop? Not a solution, since many do the exact same thing just to play the game with friends or level faster. Yet it chases players away in massive waves.

No need to stop. The queueing system has to be adjusted so such things can't happen. Premades mustn't be in the same queue as solo pugs.

[Nameless]

Remove barriers, add guards, reward renown for any kill.

Revert to click to capture objectives.

Reward 1-2 crests for capturing objectives with some kind of cooldown or diminishing return for the same BO so people don't just trade caps.

Add more scenario based quests for gear (i.e. win 250 scenarios, get full vanq). Win 500 scs get an Anthema weapon.

Stop scenarios from popping 4v4 (looking at you phoenix gate).

If scenarios are lopsided right now, you're better off running into the lakes solo and capturing a BO and maybe getting a kill or assisting in a kill and you'll get 5x the renown and crests you would have from spending 10mins being farmed. At least you get zone contribution and a bag roll from doing that.

I agree on all points beside the 4v4, 3v3 or so scens. They could be massive fun and you could learn many game mechanics only if they start with both sides got same number of archetypes

[Rapzel]

Is that a problem? I think it is - should we stop? Not a solution, since many do the exact same thing just to play the game with friends or level faster. Yet it chases players away in massive waves.

No need to stop. The queueing system has to be adjusted so such things can't happen. Premades mustn't be in the same queue as solo pugs.

And this system works well for city siege? There's no guild that stack one side and solo queue city?

[Martok]

Then I didn't even mention the Tier 1 Twink Players who live and breath ganking lowbie players with absolutely broken and unfair careers due to their early access to certain CCs or Utility. We all know who these players are - could say they like to Rip and tear into new players

Wait, what? Such behavior on Return of Reckoning? Say it ain't so, Joe, say it ain't so.

[shoelessHN]

Remove barriers, add guards, reward renown for any kill.

Revert to click to capture objectives.

Reward 1-2 crests for capturing objectives with some kind of cooldown or diminishing return for the same BO so people don't just trade caps.

Add more scenario based quests for gear (i.e. win 250 scenarios, get full vanq). Win 500 scs get an Anthema weapon.

Stop scenarios from popping 4v4 (looking at you phoenix gate).

If scenarios are lopsided right now, you're better off running into the lakes solo and capturing a BO and maybe getting a kill or assisting in a kill and you'll get 5x the renown and crests you would have from spending 10mins being farmed. At least you get zone contribution and a bag roll from doing that.

I agree on all points beside the 4v4, 3v3 or so scens. They could be massive fun and you could learn many game mechanics only if they start with both sides got same number of archetypes

You haven't played enough 4v4 phoenix gate then.

[Ksekwlothreftis]

In my opinion, the worst thing about scenarios right now is the gear difference. It's been proposed before to split the queue into rr80+ and rr80-. It's insane that the first time I joined a scenario in t4 I got gigastomped by sov players and got called a moron for even attempting to queue as a fresh 40.

[Martok]

I've said it over and over again in my streams. " gotta give people a reason to die and keep dying" right now the game overall doesn't give any reason / motivation to most players to keep at it. That's sc's and orvr.

I thought you were opposed to the 'carrot and stick' dynamic? Because, you know, eventually you just need a bigger carrot.

I agree with the points made in the OP, points which have been articulated and discussed prior during other presentations. However there is one aspect which (perhaps) hasn't been addressed in the dialogue. What players of a game such as this most desire, either consciously or subconsciously, is a sense of fairness of play. If you go into a fight either in the RvR lakes or a Scenario and lose, that is accepted as part of the game and encourages players to go back out and try again if, and it is a big if, they do not leave that fight with a sense the system was rigged against them before the fight ever started.

That is the core complaint with the current SC dynamic, the intentional punitive design of the que system which leads to the 'stomping ground' nature of SC's, as articulated by others here in this very thread. Why should players continue if the outcome of SC fights is, again by design, predetermined? Or, as Hazmy pointed out, a certain percentage of the player-base measures its success only in how many people they drive from the game?

The question the server needs to address isn't SC or RvR mechanics. The question is do you want a stable and/or growing player-base or not. Or is the only segment of the player-base which matters the guys who Twink out in Tier One?

In my opinion, the worst thing about scenarios right now is the gear difference. It's been proposed before to split the queue into rr80+ and rr80-. It's insane that the first time I joined a scenario in t4 I got gigastomped by sov players and got called a moron for even attempting to queue as a fresh 40.

The predominant answer to such concerns is always 'git gud scrub.'