WP / DOK Post patch thought

[yoluigi]

Soo been playing both classes for shield and dps (dual weild and 2h)

Some fun change i like there a base heal component but there some stuff missing i want to add.
Few ideas they dont need to be all implemented.

Shield spec
Divine strike/ Consume essence: Really need to be aoe heal to make the best out of it could be only 5-10 feet around the target to help heals for people outside the group. In 6man shield is fine but really missing that aoe heal to help in 12+man gameplay. Even if it's only 5 feet when your all around a target would help alot the melee presure.

Right now the Shield spec is motly played defencive and heal (left and middle tree) Which can be fun but there really no pressure melee pressure healer like before. Especialy for dok shield like it used. Both class suffered for that part but especialy dok shield since they could presure and playing shield dok was recently was underwhelming.

Just add Transfer essence (TE), sigmar radiance(SR) to both WP 2h and Duel wield dok. Like you that could go more of a offencive with group heals. Since they nerfed hard TE / SR soo you have to use it Khaine force/Sigmar will as shield i think should be fine. The fact that Book has it even thought book spec is already the S top tier class dont see why the dps spec would not get it.

Soo you could play your dok/wp more middle right tree small group heals to support the team with good offencive support. Something like this (example) https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 0,9589,585

For the wp something like this https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 2109,32108

You would losse the 10%crit/parry to get a bit more heals or keep it for more dps but losing heals. Soo the whole gig is going as high dmg glass cannon to make the best out of it. High risk/ High reward.

Obviously if you had divine strike / consume essence aoe heal the target you would not need the change for TE/SR since you would go that same playstyle but with DS/ CE.

[yoluigi]

My bad can we put this in forum suggestion category

[Rydiak]

Moved to Feedback

[stealthc98]

Even with that change i feel like both shield specs would still be underwhelming for wb play. You still need to be able to get through the defenses of whatever you are hitting and currently there is just too many bubbles on top of guard, challenge, etc to let melee heals be effective. Maybe if we had gear that had both str and willpower it may work. Kind of seems like the other healers were balanced around wb play and the shield specs were balanced around the 20 people that play ranked.

[yoluigi]

Even with that change i feel like both shield specs would still be underwhelming for wb play. You still need to be able to get through the defenses of whatever you are hitting and currently there is just too many bubbles on top of guard, challenge, etc to let melee heals be effective. Maybe if we had gear that had both str and willpower it may work. Kind of seems like the other healers were balanced around wb play and the shield specs were balanced around the 20 people that play ranked.

Ya but would be in the right direction. For melee healers could go dw/2h for more agressive build. Also divine strike aoe heal would help alot in groups in melee. Bevause right now book is easier to play and Give like double the output of heal and safer.

[Mvl130]

The whole point of shield spec in terms of fun and identity was assist damage, and AoE Divine Strike / Consume Essence was part of this component, since you were hitting multiple enemies with it.

Obviously assist damage being fun, was removed, so that with about 900str you end up hitting the enemy for barely a hundred. Because of the amount of strength you need for your heals to have some kind of efficiency, you have no defenses, so you're at the same time weak and fragile, and in melee.

So it is not accurate when you state that the spec is now more defensive, it is just as defensive than it was (meaning, it isn't), plus the feeling of assaulting an enemy is gone.

The fact that you can no longer heal in an area outside of your party has on top of this removed one the few advantages you had over ranged healers, so there really is no point for you anymore to stay in the thick of it. It used to be hard/intense to survive in frontline, but at least you were rewarded with nice healing of this frontline ; now you do not get anything in return for taking the risk of being in melee, it is at the same time un-fun and inefficient

[yoluigi]

The whole point of shield spec in terms of fun and identity was assist damage, and AoE Divine Strike / Consume Essence was part of this component, since you were hitting multiple enemies with it.

Obviously assist damage being fun, was removed, so that with about 900str you end up hitting the enemy for barely a hundred. Because of the amount of strength you need for your heals to have some kind of efficiency, you have no defenses, so you're at the same time weak and fragile, and in melee.

So it is not accurate when you state that the spec is now more defensive, it is just as defensive than it was (meaning, it isn't), plus the feeling of assaulting an enemy is gone.

The fact that you can no longer heal in an area outside of your party has on top of this removed one the few advantages you had over ranged healers, so there really is no point for you anymore to stay in the thick of it. It used to be hard/intense to survive in frontline, but at least you were rewarded with nice healing of this frontline ; now you do not get anything in return for taking the risk of being in melee, it is at the same time un-fun and inefficient

i complet agree with you buddy. what i meant defencive is you gota go cast heal at the same time but yeah i understand what you saying because i had the same experience that's why am recommanding some fix to start soo it can peform better or have the the dual Weild/2h to be able to give that heal dps pressure.

[Demonito]

The fact that you can no longer heal in an area outside of your party has on top of this removed one the few advantages you had over ranged healers, so there really is no point for you anymore to stay in the thick of it. It used to be hard/intense to survive in frontline, but at least you were rewarded with nice healing of this frontline ; now you do not get anything in return for taking the risk of being in melee, it is at the same time un-fun and inefficient

Very well said

The shield dok was easy to take down, you just had to punt, slow or block him with a tank
Now we have Unyielding Tormentor + Transferred Focus but they are not worth the changes
Khaine's Force cost way too much resources, a simple nerf of Transfer Essence would have been enough
Heals are too low and harder to rotate, not to mention healdebuff ruining them

Also, some weird stuff like why do Khaine's Encouragement buff casted heals ?
Transfer Essence with chalice ?
Both feel deceiving

The dps spec however seems good enough
I really (reeeeeaaally) dislike the Drowning in Blood on a 5s CD, without any Soul gain (noooooo)
Yet : Serrated Blades + EZ healdebuff + tons of heals (Devour Essence/Rend Soul/m1,2,3/rez...)
The dps is great and dok can provide huge help
Still it's true, unlike good old shield spec, it's hardcore to focus on both
Would have been fine if dok lost some heal for a better dps; It's more shield spec that needs better heals
(This is literally my dps spec)

As for Chalice spec, except the huge nerf of Khaine's Bounty, patch made it a lot more stronger
(Soul energy should just cost less or trigger without 1.5s limit to be useful)

My WP is lvl 5 so no clue for them, they just seem to have better regen in 1v1 and I don't like it :p

[Osrim]

Proposing that career resources regenerate as baseline 5-15 per sec for WP and DOK.

So shield, 2h and dual wield specs are more useful for play and gives more options spec wise.

Ty!

[Sinisterror]

It doesnt have to be that complicated. There used to exist pretty great melee dps dok/wp which is Removing shield requirement from all shield skills. And adding the old melee heal system back, specs that took like 2 or 5 rf/essence every second but you can use Sr/Te which uses Ap, gives 40 essence and heals your whole grp. Add back tactic that increases Melee Heals by 25% Divine Strike/Consume Essence hits3 people and switch the dmg back to spirit and 150% Heal and works for 2h as well shield.

Sigmars radiance/Transfer Essence Ap using/resourse generating melee grp heal ability is the most important so You are not useless while you are doing mid lvl dmg + healing your grp based on the dmg which is the literal definition of Melee Healer, it was always pretty interesting choice to give shields to Wp/Dok, Only mid lvl armour healers get block which is the strongest stat or in top 3 for sure.