never mentioned TTK, i said kill damage. as in damage contributing to kills. slayer can easily lead in this stat, which is what i was trying to convey. overall damage, WL will win due to its ability to spam its channel more often resulting in more fluff damage. yes you need to get mechanic up to deal good damage, it almost always been that way. WL has the ease of accessibility of instant damage so it will do more upfront before a slayer is red, i never disputed that. WL will not kill a competent "squishy" in 2 gcds, bis healers have high armor/redarpen and will get a guard swap if their tanks are halfway competent. dying faster is a thing of course, that's the mechanic. you take more damage, you deal more.JohnnyWayne wrote: Sun May 04, 2025 9:03 pmYou have 0 Chance to outperform a WL on ttk. You join a fight - no mechanic up, doing considerably less damage. A WL will kill a squishy in 2 GCDs. A slayer could NEVER do that at any point. Once your class mechanic is up to be relevant, you are dying twice as fast as a WL. Even for small scale - if you don't have a bw in the enemy team, just train the slayer.gersy wrote: Sun May 04, 2025 8:28 pm naturally you will not outperform WL in raw damage, but you should outperform them most of the time in kill damage. slayer also brings an absurdly powerful utility for large and smallscale in shatter limbs and has a fantastic m3 for smallscale which functions as an execute to secure kills
You will not out dps a WL and you will not kill anything faster and you will be more dead. It is mathematically impossible what you say. It doesn't matter how well you do on slayer - you would do better on a WL.
a proper setup with 2-4 IDs in to a ret channel in red will do more aoe damage than WL's channel typically. this is why we see 12man city aoe comps utilizing 2-3 slayers often. naturally ret has a longer cd and is interruptible so the recovery time is harsher than WL's channel which has less cooldown, that is about playing around your situation and not allowing yourself to be interrupted as well as getting the enemy's flank to avoid being parried/blocked.
slayer is typically better at grinding things down in coordinated/organized environments where fights last longer than 15 seconds such as in organized city, gvg, premade vs premade scenarios, etc. WL is better at dealing upfront aoe damage because it has no ramp up, you leap in and go wild. this makes it an excellent pug farmer, and is one of the main reasons for its prevalence and potency. because farming pugs is what this game has devolved in to, and WL is amazing for that. WL however typically will not outperform a well played slayer stack in organized small to midscale context.
what you say seems to mostly be formulated from pug gameplay or average orvr gameplay experience of pug vs pug or weak "org" wb vs other weak "org" wbs. again, i won't dispute that WL is the king of those situations. if you refer back to my post, which you clearly didn't read in its entirety, i outline the many reasons why slayer is extremely potent in organized, grindy fights and competitive situations as a whole.
just because you don't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't happening. there are plenty of good groups utilizing slayer to its maximum capability and abusing how powerful the class can be when coordinated properly using shatter, m4, on demand IHD for quick ST swaps, spreading IDs, etc. there are just infinitely more noobs who rerolled to lion for the ease of accessibility it provides - high impact for comparatively low effort.
