[Pulls]

[Krohgin]

Noob here, but I've been a PvPer in other MMOs for years. Simple question about this topic:

I'm assuming this is about the Marauder ability "Terrible Embrace." Am I to understand that one faction has easier (and/or potentially more reliable) access to an equivalent ability than the other?

In WoW world PvP, for example, Death Knights have a similar ability, Death Grip, which makes them mandatory for larger scale battles. Groups stack the frontline with the class and have dedicated rotations for each Death Knight to use the ability to drag opposing players into their raid and instantly mow them down with assist targeting. Rinse/repeat. Many raid/guild leaders play Death Knight just for this ability and its use for target calling. Except both factions have access to the class and ability, so it's happening on both sides. Upon first seeing the ability I assumed that Marauder played a similar roll here.

Once again, I'm new here, but it's basic common sense and knowledge of mechanics to see the upside of using that tactic in RvR. If it's true that Order doesn't have a reliable equivalent, I can see where some could be upset when facing premades that use this ability efficiently.

Once again, I'm not picking sides, just trying to understand the situation in order to learn more about the game. I'm just a lowly level 17 .

[PROsiak]

Noob here, but I've been a PvPer in other MMOs for years. Simple question about this topic:

I'm assuming this is about the Marauder ability "Terrible Embrace." Am I to understand that one faction has easier (and/or potentially more reliable) access to an equivalent ability than the other?

In WoW world PvP, for example, Death Knights have a similar ability, Death Grip, which makes them mandatory for larger scale battles. Groups stack the frontline with the class and have dedicated rotations for each Death Knight to use the ability to drag opposing players into their raid and instantly mow them down with assist targeting. Rinse/repeat. Many raid/guild leaders play Death Knight just for this ability and its use for target calling. Except both factions have access to the class and ability, so it's happening on both sides. Upon first seeing the ability I assumed that Marauder played a similar roll here.

Once again, I'm new here, but it's basic common sense and knowledge of mechanics to see the upside of using that tactic in RvR. If it's true that Order doesn't have a reliable equivalent, I can see where some could be upset when facing premades that use this ability efficiently.

Once again, I'm not picking sides, just trying to understand the situation in order to learn more about the game. I'm just a lowly level 17 .

More or less that is the case here. Desto has advantage when it comes to 'pulling type' abilities, as Marauder's equivalent is on WL pet, which largely limits its usability and Choppas AoE pull isnt mirrored at all. Destro also has some unique punts like BO's little punt that doesnt give immunity or Zealot channeling punt. I would say these differences play mostly for destro favor in situations like keep defences/siegies.
But ultimately when it comes to faction balance it's hard to say really. Right now it's mostly on which side there are more organized players or simply more players at all, so depending on the day you can see either faction dominating.

[Easysteps2]

In a game designed for 24v24 or larger none of this matters in the long run. 1v1 additionally I and possibly other mara's would give up pull for a 25% damage core tactic i believe especailly in wb fights.

During a siege, when a mara pulls a tank or anyone else into their blob and they die (resetting their morale), don't you think that's a good 24v24 rvr ability? You don't think that's makes mara relevant?

If they make a change, I just want it so that Order and Destruction has the same or similar opportunities to get game changing abilities.

[Easysteps2]

In WoW world PvP, for example, Death Knights have a similar ability, Death Grip, which makes them mandatory for larger scale battles. Groups stack the frontline with the class and have dedicated rotations for each Death Knight to use the ability to drag opposing players into their raid and instantly mow them down with assist targeting. Rinse/repeat. Many raid/guild leaders play Death Knight just for this ability and its use for target calling. Except both factions have access to the class and ability, so it's happening on both sides. Upon first seeing the ability I assumed that Marauder played a similar roll here.

Once again, I'm new here, but it's basic common sense and knowledge of mechanics to see the upside of using that tactic in RvR. If it's true that Order doesn't have a reliable equivalent, I can see where some could be upset when facing premades that use this ability efficiently.

Yes it's about Terrible Embrace.

Yes, destruction have access to the mara pull by default, and it has a long range, sometimes pulling through walls etc. Choppa can also pull, but it's short range and they have to spec into it, so it's more rare.

Order has a white lion that can do similar, but the pet can die, and the pet still does not 100% work. Engineer also needs to spec into pulling. From what I've seen, Eng rarely spec into pulling.

The pull tactic in WoW sounds really boring, and it would be that way also in warhammer if there were more marauders.

[Easysteps2]

Don't run away from fight and pulls not gonna bother you.
That's why order complain about pulls all the time, they get caught running away to their wc or they have glass cannon build on their SW.

Even a full sov tank dies when getting pulled into a WB.

[Bohavwn]

In a game designed for 24v24 or larger none of this matters in the long run. 1v1 additionally I and possibly other mara's would give up pull for a 25% damage core tactic i believe especailly in wb fights.

During a siege, when a mara pulls a tank or anyone else into their blob and they die (resetting their morale), don't you think that's a good 24v24 rvr ability? You don't think that's makes mara relevant?

The game isn't all about damage. But hey, maybe they should change it so that you have to choose between single target damage, AE damage, and pull. Then you'll be like the engineers, where no engineer has magnetic pull, because they can't top the damage meters. That's what this thread is about, not all maras should have the long range pull, you should need to spec into it.

If they make a change, I just want it so that Order and Destruction has the same or similar opportunities to get game changing abilities. If one side gets long range pulls by default, both sides should get it. If one side has super long range punts or punts that don't create/ignore immunities, both sides should get it. If one side has AE disables that ignore all immunities, both sides should get it.

Order also has ways to reset enemy morale. Morale loss is a weak argument. Order has access to multiple ranged knock downs. Destro does not. Simply arguing that one faction has something and the other does not without looking at overall balance is bad form.

[danielj1993]

In a game designed for 24v24 or larger none of this matters in the long run. 1v1 additionally I and possibly other mara's would give up pull for a 25% damage core tactic i believe especailly in wb fights.

During a siege, when a mara pulls a tank or anyone else into their blob and they die (resetting their morale), don't you think that's a good 24v24 rvr ability? You don't think that's makes mara relevant?

The game isn't all about damage. But hey, maybe they should change it so that you have to choose between single target damage, AE damage, and pull. Then you'll be like the engineers, where no engineer has magnetic pull, because they can't top the damage meters. That's what this thread is about, not all maras should have the long range pull, you should need to spec into it.

If they make a change, I just want it so that Order and Destruction has the same or similar opportunities to get game changing abilities. If one side gets long range pulls by default, both sides should get it. If one side has super long range punts or punts that don't create/ignore immunities, both sides should get it. If one side has AE disables that ignore all immunities, both sides should get it.

Order also has ways to reset enemy morale. Morale loss is a weak argument. Order has access to multiple ranged knock downs. Destro does not. Simply arguing that one faction has something and the other does not without looking at overall balance is bad form.

This 100%. Yes, Mara is superior in this specific aspect. But are we arguing that Mara is better in WB RVR than WL? Surely not.
Not everything in this game is exactly mirrored on the other side. They have different tools.

[PROsiak]

Order also has ways to reset enemy morale. Morale loss is a weak argument. Order has access to multiple ranged knock downs. Destro does not. Simply arguing that one faction has something and the other does not without looking at overall balance is bad form.

Well balance isn't the only factor. Few years ago Choppas pull had much longer range. Mby something as long as 65 ft if im not mistaken. At the same time slayer's rampage was in its 'prime'. Was it balanaced? Idk, maybe. Maybe all those pulls order had to endure for years were counterbalanced in stronger raw power in a form of broken ability. But was that fun to play? Both with and against? Absolutely not and im glad that period is over.

While i agree not everything should me mirrored and some form of uniqness of classes and factions should be preserved, fundamental abilities and playstyles in the game should be distributed among both factions.

[Sinisterror]

Order also has ways to reset enemy morale. Morale loss is a weak argument. Order has access to multiple ranged knock downs. Destro does not. Simply arguing that one faction has something and the other does not without looking at overall balance is bad form.

Well balance isn't the only factor. Few years ago Choppas pull had much longer range. Mby something as long as 65 ft if im not mistaken. At the same time slayer's rampage was in its 'prime'. Was it balanaced? Idk, maybe. Maybe all those pulls order had to endure for years were counterbalanced in stronger raw power in a form of broken ability. But was that fun to play? Both with and against? Absolutely not and im glad that period is over.

While i agree not everything should me mirrored and some form of uniqness of classes and factions should be preserved, fundamental abilities and playstyles in the game should be distributed among both factions.

People have no idea it seems. Pounce used to be WL only and 65ft no cooldown, can pounce to keep walls etc no restrictions. Now you cant even jump and use pounce + Pounce has been given to SH which should be order only and removed from Sh. 100ft Morale Pounce to Sm with 60% aoe Snare which should be returned, If Morale's cant be Op then wtf? Pounce should be order only, Ranged Kd should be order only. 100% Morale dmg returned. Aoe melee kd is destro only. Both sides has acces magiengi to 75ft 5 people pull, and this pulled you from 75ft UP as well so keep walls/fort walls are not safe spaces and shoudlnt be.

No one complained, EVER in Aor about Choppa pull, it was 30ft maybe max 40ft, random pull 1 people vs Unavoidable, uncleansable and stackable ID that slayer has with 0s cooldown when using short temper;) Oh and RoR changed the guard mechanic, undefendable attacks are undefendable for guard dmg as well(heresy) Which meant Rampage Slayer can bypass every avoidance, and even guard mechanic. Also dmg goes thru morale avoidances as well so there is no counter and this insanity was the norm for years.

Morale avoidances should overpower Normal Spammable undefendable attacks obviously. But Morale dmg goes thru morale avoidance nothing else does that has dmg, but magi/engi turret stagger, Sw/Sqh Self kb/snare and we/wh self kb went thru morale avoidance because they had no dmg and unavoidable, but no dmg part was huge : D

[CountTalabecland]

Pulls in this game are entirely unbalanced in favor of Destro.

The guy who came here from WoW above shows precisely how powerful it is for one side to have all the pulls and the other practically none.

An Order MDPS needs an AoE spammable pull like GTDC or remove GTDC. I am typically against taking things away that are fun. So, if SH and WE can get pounce, Slayer should get pull.