[PTS] Combustion & Dark magic

[aa91837]

Over the years of RoR ive done selfreports of stuff I found and it was broken and could had abused myself, but i reported it instead because the game should be fair and fun and working as intented. Such as:
- snapshotting bonusdmg in ASW / Squigarmor stance to run with both warlord + sove bonuses at once
- BW m2 morale range not reduced to 25ft
- several BW could buff Flames of Rhuin and they would each stack and proc.

Im fine with nerfs, as long as there are alternatives. Currently there are no more offensive sources to tap into to make up for a blanket nerf, there are no alternatives in builds for either Timestamp or Bombing. We already have capped int, we have max critchance because that is all we can spec into offensively, and if we fall to the same level as damagedealers who has more mobility, sustain, control, mitigation then why play these two careers.

you gits learn nothing about ror server...

[leftayparxoun]

How much that 15% in numbers?

Using a conservative example of 100 Dark Magic/Combustion Sorc/BW with Sov crit dmg bonus and 65% magical crit chance, the (crit-averaged) damage loss is:

• vs enemies with 10% chance to be crit: 1 - (1+0.75*1.60)/(1+0.75*1.45) = 1 - 2.20/2.09 = 5.4% damage loss

• vs enemies with 0% chance to be crit: 1 - (1+0.65*1.60)/(1+0.65*1.45) = 1 - 2.04/1.94 = 5% damage loss

• vs enemies with -10% chance to be crit: 1 - (1+0.55*1.60)/(1+0.55*1.45) = 1 - 1.88/1.80 = 4.6% damage loss

• vs enemies with -20% chance to be crit: 1 - (1+0.45*1.60)/(1+0.45*1.45) = 1 - 1.72/1.65 = 4.1% damage loss

So overall between 4 and 5.5% damage loss on average.

[sven85z]

Welcome to the 20% engi/magus damage nerf from years ago.

And dont forget they also took away the fun changes they made to magus and eng pet mechanics like longer range faster aoe dots and disrupt/larger radius and made it way less fun to play.

[Lion1986]

now you guys understand what means being an engi. in last years nerfss after nerfs kicked out class from anything competitive. this ws nerf will bring things back in trail and removal on int strikethroug for bw/sorc will make sniper engi appealing again.
100% like these patch notes. Now an engi can go full grenadier/tinkerer in ini stack and having a lot of staying power!

[what63]

If the top tier bws/sorcs are the problem better nerf sov 15% set bonus or/and 5% bloodlord weapon but now you nerf every sigle bw/sorc from lvl 1 to 80.
I blame singlemomalert/singlemom for this global nerf

Pretty much this, just gut the sov bonus lol. BW/Sorc require massive amounts of setup to even be able to timestamp something these days outside of pure pugs, a blanket nerf definitely shouldn't be in the cards. For bombing, they still suffer from all the buffs to far more mobile and durable classes, while being mostly in a weaker state than they were on live themselves, hitting the baseline is just weird when looking at this angle aswell.

[Caduceus]

BW/Sorc require massive amounts of setup to even be able to timestamp something these days outside of pure pugs, a blanket nerf definitely shouldn't be in the cards.

And what is the point of playing a class that continually has to morale bomb itself if you cannot do good damage?

[Aluviya]

Damage has been consistently high over the past year, with big struggles if targets are in Champion Challenge (ChCh) and being tunneled. However, in this whole equation, I don't understand why Sorc and BW are getting the nerf hammer. They might (I'm not an ORvR player) have a semi decent damage in AoE spec, but their role has mostly remained as a buffing class for the other AoE DPS in the party. Now, having played solo and group ranked for ages, this change seems to me flatly unfair. Both classes in competitive small-scale play are:

• 1) Nearly unplayable against gap-closing DPS like WL and Mara as they can pick you up even if you are using Focused Mind.

• 2) Entirely unplayable against Squig and SW as they will make sure you are in constant range applied snare (in which even cleansing is mostly pointless because they will cover it).

• 3) Have a hard time dealing with stealthers,

• 4) Have a very hard time with defensive Tanks applying Challenge on you (Hence your spike damage becomes pretty much forgetable)

• 5) And have to kite in any other scenario with ChCh, so they can't properly rotate unless the enemy decides to go after the other DPS.

• 6) Can always be range staggered and ChCh'ed to end the kiting without any counterplay left after that as you don't have unlike SW and Squig a "buff armor option" so people practically hit a target nearly 0 armor if armor debuff is applied and also after being caught you do not have any ability to escape aside of M2 - Focused Mind which is available every 60 secs, meanwhile a stagger gives you 30 secs immunity, ChCh can be effectively applied every 20 secs

Since certain people have been complaining about range comps and their damage, Sorc and BW are the least of the actual threats here. Especially from the perspective of a healer and Sorc/BW player, I can tell you that the moment the enemy healer finds the cleanse button is the moment your game is over. And again, if there's no frontline in a scenario, you'll most likely have zero time windows where you can really rotate anything unless you want to be caught in chain snares and CC.

Instead of nerfing a class that barely ever worked in small scale, I don't understand why the context around it isn't being considered, which seemingly gives the class this strength:

• a) Talon

• a) Champion Challenge

• b) Damage calculation to Spike abilities of Squig and SW abilities*

• c) Survivability changes to MDPS

* I think abilities need some grounded ruleset. There are far too many abilities that have quite different scaling such as Fell the Weak for SW which does around 3k Damage - it's an instant - meanwhile there is not a single ability on a caster be it sorc, bw, magus that would do that portion of damage - not without talon- and not without requiring a stationary casttime of 3 secs -> my point here is we have to come up with basic rules how much an instant should do compared to abilities that have a casttime, and take into consideration that casttime requires a stationary position and setback.

[Lion1986]

a good start would be to cut in half the self damage the class causes itself.
Or maybe make dark magic debuff the caster: the more dark magic you have, the more magic damage you take (ele/corp/spirit)

[Nameless]

Sorc/bw nerf is strange cos they didnt get any meaningfull changes from alot of time, they didnt consider overperforming, the so-called rdps meta is based mainly on sw and sh overperforming, bw and sorcs just could work with them decently.

So after adding barriers to battle range setups this change feels like someone's personal grudge vs range classes.
The question is why bw/sorc but not sh/sw. It feels uncalled

[Lion1986]

Sorc/bw nerf is strange cos they didnt get any meaningfull changes from alot of time, they didnt consider overperforming, the so-called rdps meta is based mainly on sw and sh overperforming, bw and sorcs just could work with them decently.

So after adding barriers to battle range setups this change feels like someone's personal grudge vs range classes.
The question is why bw/sorc but not sh/sw. It feels uncalled

i think nerf is more directed to "avoid full bw/sorc rvr bands"