Nothing is OP if everything is OP

[tazdingo]

I agree. i'm really worried they're going to remove every last remaining interesting or fun thing you can build around in the name of balance

sm shield punt - gone
long range rift/magnet - gone
solo cannon smash killer build - gone
tank morale pump into big aoe snares - gone

and so many more

there's just nothing fun or creative left to do. build the standard way everyone builds. play the standard way everyone plays. mark my words excommunicate and the stealth punts are going in the dps rebalance

[Bladespawn]

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock

What's the question again?

[salazarn]

I suppose that would mean buffing everything and leaving shaman the same.

[Rotgut]

...It feels like a very rock/paper/scissors kind of balance.

Yes, its a rock/paper/scissors kind of balance, but with a lot more variables. And a Balance Team Dev also expressed concerns about how this might end up creating a power creep issue that eventually breaks combat.

Both your concerns are correct.

My first counter-argument is that the game currently has less options than a rock/paper/scissors situation. When facing stronger opponents you can either blob or you can run. That is it. Its even less options than we had back when it was "Rampage" vs "Choppa Pull and Faster Morales" fights, because back then terrain and timing mattered more. Order was stronger in funnels and had a late Dmg Drop, Destro stronger in the open field with a Dmg Drop on contact, and you could win a fight against bigger numbers or a WB that wiped you repeatedly if you chose a terrain that best suited your style or if you countered their Dmg Drop. Nowadays terrain doesn't do as much and both sides behave in the same way.

I still think a "everything is broken but with hard counters" way of balance is doable because its how its done in Dota, a game with 100+ heroes. Dota manages the power creep problem in two ways: Heroes peak at different points in the game (early game, mid game and late game) and you have access to items that are hard counters to your enemy's strategy. We have similar tools available. People can just log in an alt that acts as a hard counter cuz that will matter more than your gear, the different kinds of WBs will behave in unique ways and that naturally creates soft counters (like if the enemy needs a Ranged Line that does the dmg, jumping such a squishy line is a soft counter), and if both WBs have Broken Synergy then individual plays will matter more (your tanks managed to punt two of their "debuffers" before they could cast and effectively decreased the enemy's WB dmg in half for their drop, and their tanks didn't, so you have a better chance of winning).

Broken spell creates more options and rewards decision making, and most important of all, its fun.

[SZ244663]

I 100% agree with Culexus, that this approach, while a novel idea, will make things way harder for PUGS and honestly this will drive away a lot of players --

[SZ244663]

I suppose that would mean buffing everything and leaving shaman the same.

There are a lot of things left for shamans to be buffed, if we are talking about buffing classes -- bring back the previous laser beam (bunch o' waaagh) for shamans.

[Dackjanielz]

Good luck convincing them to do anything the community actually wants.

[Paxsanarion]

Revert the server back to last live version and let people have fun.

[Dajciekrwi]

Revert the server back to last live version and let people have fun.

TOTALLY AGREE!!

[Speedyluck]

Revert the server back to last live version and let people have fun.

it might be able to draw lots of old players back.