Tone down the Meta Procs

[Emissary]

Huge write up on this. I really appreciate the great comments here and 100% agree that the new Proc Meta is something we need to look at (just my opinion and in no way am i talking for the team). I have said for over a month that the Proc meta and the auto attack meta have gone crazy as of late. Keep up the conversation (keep it civil) but this is a great example of how feedback should be given.

[Akalukz]

Two simple questions:

Why not make the procs pass a defense check?

Why not just change WL/Mara AoE Spam to a 1 sec pulse instead of 2 .5 sec pulses? These are the biggest "abusers" of the procs generally speaking, maybe the new choppa one as well.

[Rotgut]

Whatever change to procs they implement, i'll trust that it will also come with something else that will change meta.

Proc meta is not my favorite, i think it makes fights way too fast, but at least both factions have all the tools they need to use it. If they just nerf procs then it looks like it might become a Morale Meta, and the game as it is right now isn't balanced for that.

[vanbuinen77]

Make procs affected by avoidance

[CyunUnderis]

Why not just change WL/Mara AoE Spam to a 1 sec pulse instead of 2 .5 sec pulses? These are the biggest "abusers" of the procs generally speaking, maybe the new choppa one as well.

I can only answer this question. Marauder and White Lion are decent AoE DPS (not the best from my point of view) but if you change the frequency of their channels, you will tone down too much their DPS (they are really simple to play in AoE spec, without too much skills, so if you nerf their AoE channel, you'll have a bland DPS). The problem really lies in the ICD of the procs (or at least in those tactics that boost them too much).

[Akalukz]

Why not just change WL/Mara AoE Spam to a 1 sec pulse instead of 2 .5 sec pulses? These are the biggest "abusers" of the procs generally speaking, maybe the new choppa one as well.

I can only answer this question. Marauder and White Lion are decent AoE DPS (not the best from my point of view) but if you change the frequency of their channels, you will tone down too much their DPS (they are really simple to play in AoE spec, without too much skills, so if you nerf their AoE channel, you'll have a bland DPS). The problem really lies in the ICD of the procs (or at least in those tactics that boost them too much).

I was suggesting more of a combining of the damage from 2 to 1, not necessarily nerfing damage output.

[akisnaakkeli]

Just remove things like SL/CH 50% dmg+ Mechanic affecting Grp dmg Buffs like Sorc/Dok/Wp/Bw and from Gear/Wpn procs as well so there is no 580hp Prayer of Righteousness proc from slayer vs rest of the grp getting 270 or so. Tactics like Divine Fury and Flanking does affect the dmg of grp dmg procs but not wpn dmg procs.

Man WH was a beast with 35% Dmg increase for 10 seconds when disrupting<3 Back then Choppa/Slayer Detaunt could be disrupted and was 30 sec CD=) Maybe intentional them being INSANE dmg dealers and supposed to die alot, ffs they have tactic to resurrect themselves and do aoe dmg and no ress sickness : D

[wonshot]

General about procs:
Most procs seemed to have a single-source mitigation type iirc.
For example BW/Sorc offensive on hit proc for groupmembers being a magical type so their resistance type would mitigate their output but toughness wouldnt.

RoR proc meta around 2018:
BW/Sorc procs were nerfed so their tactics would not benefit groupmembers for higher chance to proc because of how players would pair up proc provider with high frequentcy user such as slayer. Seems like we are back at the same situation after that RoR-patchnote was revoked this year.

Speculative indirect changes leading to this state:
After the global cooldown was increased and Morale-per-second-barrier was added removing some 100-0 burst from morale drops. Channeled damage and procs arguebly became more viable sources for TimeToKill increasing. And with Choppa/Slayer being Enraged losing 50% resist the procs are naturally hitting harder on top of this too probably making them feel extra potent against these classes.

Options to adjust procs:
Proc chance
Proc frequentcy
Proc mitigation
Adjust value or scaling

Also procs can be shattered granted if you are on some of the few classes who can counter enchantments (2/3 tanks per realm and stealthers + shield healers iirc) and with the increased cooldown on buffing the procs in some cases that gives a very tiny but exsisting source of some level of counterplay. Granted not against Auras.

With all things concidered the boring most solid option would maybe be to revert to how RoR procs were last year. Same rates, not affecting groupmembers on tactics etc. It's not like a meta change into procs sparked new classes to come out of the shade, its all the same DPS classes being used as they have good untilty on top of Damage, Mobility, Debuffs and after GCD increase have strong burst-dps with Channels. Now just sprinkled more offensive procs on top of that

[Ashoris]

I have said for over a month that the Proc meta and the auto attack meta have gone crazy as of late.

Hi, iam sorry but what exactly do you mean by the "Auto Attack meta" ? we clearly have the tuned down AA version of the later Warhammer online and not the early one active in this game.
Auto Attacks were always a bigger chunk of the dmg than most ppl realized (especially on destru who could buff dmg AND speed of it for the whole Group).
The only indirect AA buff came through the global cooldown change. but iam unaware of anything else.

[what63]

General about procs:
Most procs seemed to have a single-source mitigation type iirc.
For example BW/Sorc offensive on hit proc for groupmembers being a magical type so their resistance type would mitigate their output but toughness wouldnt.

RoR proc meta around 2018:
BW/Sorc procs were nerfed so their tactics would not benefit groupmembers for higher chance to proc because of how players would pair up proc provider with high frequentcy user such as slayer. Seems like we are back at the same situation after that RoR-patchnote was revoked this year.

Speculative indirect changes leading to this state:
After the global cooldown was increased and Morale-per-second-barrier was added removing some 100-0 burst from morale drops. Channeled damage and procs arguebly became more viable sources for TimeToKill increasing. And with Choppa/Slayer being Enraged losing 50% resist the procs are naturally hitting harder on top of this too probably making them feel extra potent against these classes.

Options to adjust procs:
Proc chance
Proc frequentcy
Proc mitigation
Adjust value or scaling

Also procs can be shattered granted if you are on some of the few classes who can counter enchantments (2/3 tanks per realm and stealthers + shield healers iirc) and with the increased cooldown on buffing the procs in some cases that gives a very tiny but exsisting source of some level of counterplay. Granted not against Auras.

With all things concidered the boring most solid option would maybe be to revert to how RoR procs were last year. Same rates, not affecting groupmembers on tactics etc. It's not like a meta change into procs sparked new classes to come out of the shade, its all the same DPS classes being used as they have good untilty on top of Damage, Mobility, Debuffs and after GCD increase have strong burst-dps with Channels. Now just sprinkled more offensive procs on top of that

Procs were hard meta even for 6v6 for a time years ago before ICDs were tuned. And hard meta here meaning they were just completely overshadowning everything else in the game by miles and miles, even when disregarding BW/Sorc to some degree. BW was optimal in full proc build for ages even after tactic nerfs because they were so potent even without sharing. Procs were barely healthy with nerfed ICDs, nerfed tactics and while not being affected by +%damage. The second they started to scale with +%damage, that was already it. Just taking off the blindfold and considering the past for even a second will reveal that procs were always problematic all the way through.

A reversion would indeed be in order, but it would just be a clunky bandaid, just like most of the changes were in the past, and like certain changes being made right now are. As with the whole Witchbrew discussion, I'll just take the opportunity to say that non-scaling damage will never be healthy, just solve the issue at the root and make them all scale. (Meaning, adjust bases down while compensating losses with scalings, before someone once again tries to pull out some argument about output magically going to end up too high, because it really won't as long as some basic math is being applied.)