[SM] Need help with solo

[Niemosin7]

Hey, returned player here. First I am sorry if there are any grammatical errors, English is my third language and I haven’t used it much these days.

So, last Christmas I returned to RoR after a long year break, pushing my old 69 SM to finally reach lv 78 recently but does not do well at all as 2h.

I usually played SnB before but decided to get 5 off-sov and pick Bloodlord weapon from BS, does not have much problem in WB but end up dead every time I have a solo encounter with many other classes(I know, it's probably a skill issue).

So, what I need is not really about builds/gears since there are many guides about them already. What I looking for now is how to play and how to deal with other classes. And since SM is my only character, I have no idea about other classes at all except for some basic info.


Most classes I have problems with:

WE - melt everytime I get ambushed, try to fight back but my damage doesn’t seem to hurt them at all(and even with 700+ toughness, full parry&DD doesn’t seem to help me). Sometimes almost manage to kill them, then they just stun/jump away, go into stealth, then pop out of thin air again and melt me with their burst damage from behind. Is there any mechanic about them that I should know? Any counter?


Tank/Choppa - Doesn’t have much trouble with tank class, except for the regen one. Managed to fight well early on, the low-level one is fine but the high-level one seems to have a very high amount of regen, and I don’t seem to be able to do any damage higher than their health regen at all, while they can still keep spamming their abilities at me until I die.
I have tried a different build, full DPS build seems to have done damage higher than their regen amount but I die too fast. The defensive build is much better, survived longer but never be able to bring their health down more than 1/3 until they slapped me to death.

(-This is the most annoying one for me, same as regen WE. Is there any counter to this? Or should I make a regen build too? Phantom’s Blade alone doesn’t seem to help me with this long/tedious fight with those regen builds at all.)


Ranged Class - my biggest problem is catching them. like SH/shaman. Mostly I try to avoid them, but if you randomly pick a spot and you seem to find them everywhere. Sorc/magus doesn’t seem to have much problem if I bring Calming Wind+Max DD, but their crit damage is so xxxx hurt. I even got repetitive 2000+ crit damage from sorc once even though I have max futile Strike and 600-700+ toughness. Is that normal? Or did I do anything wrong?

I normally don’t go solo, so most of my encounters are on a defending side against those solo players, and it happen so many times to the point that I really want to get better at this.

As SM(a noob SM, of course, I know myself) Is there any enemy mechanic that I should be aware of? Like how they play/abilities/tactics-way to counter and so on.

[Aethilmar]

Caveat: I suspect that anything I say here has gotten worse over the past couple of patches since they SMs have been nerfed across several abilities. I used to (pre-nerf) run a 13/13 ED + WW build using 6 Off Sov. That gave me the ability to spam both shields and ED. It still technically works but with WW spam it has longer downtime and is therefore not as good as it used to be.

WE have always been a pain for SM (and a lot of others). Maybe there is some super build that handles them easily, but in general the best thing you can do with WE is pull them into traffic since any WE can disengage with you (and re-engage) at will and you need a second person to keep them out of stealth for the kill (or be a WL).

Most tank fights are winnable but they take so long that you either get help or get run over by help.

Choppas - high end regen on them isn't as bad as WE but still hard to cut through. Just have to time your KD and challenge right and you usually can eke out a win.

Sorcs and single-target Magus - Yeah. Don't engage them until you can get the drop on them instead of having to approach them while they have free shots. I remember once I got kited by a sorc who killed me through continuous WoDS spam ... it was sobering. On live the sorc would have died to self damage before getting through it. Not here.

Lastly, maybe the most practical thing I can add is I used to use Ensorcelled blow + Ensorcelled agony. But I switched to just using Gryphon's Lash + Potent Enchantments.

Lash is supposed to be unparryable and unblockable and way, way to many times I'd get close to killing something and get stopped by a couple of parries and die myself. Now I use it to hit them when I need to hit them and possibly apply PE and/or get a proc.

Anyway, good luck. Solo SM is categorically harder than it used to be with the nerfs so you will need it.

[Zxul]

Some general advises since I don't play pixies in dresses:

WE- most of them will be in Witchbrew build (since its only good build which WEs got left). Parry is good, and toughness is good for other stuff than Witchbrew /kisses/openers, however you also need absorb. They will also have high toughness, and possibly some parry, so you need a either a high str, or procs, to get past the toughness. They likely won't have high armor, so if you get a lot of parried attacks switch to Gryphon's Lash spamming.

In general, current meta is proc dmg, so try to get all the procs you can- Centuries of Training, Potent Ehncantments, etc. Procs ignore toughness, so those will hurt WEs, tanks, etc. SM seem to have a lot of proc options, so try to concentrate on those that ain't too conditional.

Also about WEs- lot of them will have tactic for absorb on being crit, so unless you got some super crit build it might be a good idea to remove crit entirely, and concentrate on procs.

Also specifically about WEs, WE opener (Enfeebling Strike) does a proc dmg when you move, and it can be used both from long stealth and from instastealth (Elixir of Shadows), so if WE stealths for a sec than runs away without staggering you, chances are WE wants you to run after it triggering the procs.

Also make sure to always have your opponent resist debuffed- those add lot of dmg, including to procs.

About kiters- Flee + ap pot is your friend. Improved Flee renown ability might be worth considering as well. Champion's Challenge m1 might also be worth considering.

[Niemosin7]

Thank you so much for your guy's advice, it helped me improve a lot. and after running around for almost 6 months, I think it is time to re-visit and share my experience as a case study, just in case any future SM might find it useful in the future.

So, after running around trying to improve for several months, I have tried several builds, collected all the gears like Pokemon, and came up with many builds, but only found a few that were really useful in solo play.

I also been playing other classes this past few months and managed to get rr80+ AM and 50+ WL, and I can say that they are absolutely a better solo choice than SM.

However, I found that I have more fun playing SM that other classes can't offer the same, and hope other players play it long enough to find its beauty as I do. So, after listening to my friend pestering me for days, I then decided to re-visit and share my experience just in case it can be useful to other fellow SM.

1st build, Regen SM
This is the first build I tried after the post, with 3 Fleshrender hp regen (damn, it took forever to farm all 3), grimshimmer chest, sov/war piece with regen, and about 800+ toughness.

Tbh, this build really makes me feel so powerful, you are so tanky and have huge amount of regen to help you in any fight, combine it with Vaul Buffer/good gears and you are an unkillable bastard in 1v1. I have been sticking with this build for so long, got kill more than Dead, and nearly never lose any 1v1 fight in those past few months.

However, after months of running with this build, I begin to realize that something is lacking. There is a feeling of insecurity every time I leave WC without regen build, only able to win a fight by 'tanking it out', and against an equal player with good knowledge of your build, they still beat you to a pulp anyway.

After like 3 months of playing with regen, I began to ponder whether this is really a good build for SM, and then I finally took the courage to dump those regen items away in the bank, walk out with normal gears, and yeah.... I died a lot without it.

However, after constant dying for an entire week, I began to realize that my skill play got better and better, learned a lot of new tricks, positioned myself better in fights, and many other aspects that improved over time, and I find I have more fun than I expect.

Back then I didn't understand, but I see now why many people don't really like regen gears that much, it makes your skill play crude and dumb. looking back I find myself such a braindead SM during those few months running around with regen build.

but don't get me wrong, regen build is definitely powerful if use right, but I don't really think it a good idea for new SM to try it out first, and outside of 1v1, it is useless anyway.

2nd build - DPS SM - 'Dance to Win'
with the last balance update, SM is finally in better shape than early this year, ether dance is down to 9 points, and sapping strike to give you a juicy 10% crit chance, I found that this build can bring down anyone real quick.

I personally go 5sov/4vic to get that 5% damage bonus, but since it is unreliable, either 5sov/2war/2vic or 2senti is also working well. or sometimes I go for 6sov to get +2 points in Khaine Tree, and that 2 extra points give us a nice damage boost to khaine ability(I think it is even better than investing in more str, but could be wrong idk).

with 14 points in Khaine or 15 if you have 6sov(can stack to 16, yes). I found this build to be very effective, both in solo and in small-scale/sc. you can bring down anyone quickly before any reinforcement arrives. However, I find that this build is too squishy for a tank class, and you will die very often. so learning to taunt/interrupt/kd and wods at the right moment can play a decisive role. with that, knowledge about your opponent's class/skill is very important.

3rd build - Offensive SNB - 'DoT them to dead!'
This is kind of a fun build for me, since I play SnB a lot before changing to 2h at rr78. 4tri, 3off sov, 2war or 2sov steelheart. (I personally go for 2war for more str)

There is nothing much about this build, I go for Vaul Tempering in the middle tree since I find WW is kinda useless in many situations outside group play, and VT is surprisingly useful if you know when to use it. base pick is CW for KD, PoH, PD, and CA. Vaul Buffer is also good but I leave it out for more DoT tactics.

For gameplay... nothing much, you just charge and kill(lol) and it is stupidly so effective against squishy dps. Also with the recent change, SM SnB can get a pretty good block chance, your survivability is also very high, and timing VT at the right moment can get you a kill or out of problem very easily.

However, you will have a lot of problems trying to kill other tank/dps healer or even tanky MDPS, so better move on when you find them and focus on squishy m/rdps instead.


4th build - 'Balance'
Switch Warrior genesis for 2 everlastings, or 2 annulus rings with toughness that have + 2% parry for each ring would be even better, gears depend on the situation. 650-700+ str, 700+ or even 800+ toughness, I got around 8.9k wound to mid 9k, less than 0% ctbc, flat damage, no crit chance, and either 11 - 0 - 13 with Ether dance+WW or standard 13 - 0 - 9(no need for sapping strike but it can give you good dot damage, but tbh you will have to use another more important ability in Improve Stance first anyway).

This is the build I ignored for so long since it has low damage, but once I tried it out, I found out I have more success in solo roam than any other build. With higher toughness, and less ctbc, you have more survivability than normal dps build, but ofc, it is a trade-off for lower damage output. So you have to keep in mind that you can't bring down an opponent as quickly as before, and can be a bit problematic against a good player that can tell your build immediately and then adapt their play to counter you. So you have to play smarter during a fight. (ofc, unless you also have high regen and then tanking it out of problem, but tbh a good player with the right build can still beat us to a pulp anyway even with full regen, better go for other stat instead.)

I think the main point of this build is more survivability while still being able to deal some damage. I don't know about your solo experience, but during my playtime, there is a lot of duo, group, or wb running around and I rarely encounter any 1v1 fight, so higher survivability serves me better in my solo play. Also without crit damage, I found this build to be very effective against def WE, managed to win several encounters, but most of the time they can just jump and go invis to run away before I can finish the job anyway.

Well, This is pretty much it. I have to say that I am not a good SM player or anything, just someone who tries everything out and thinks it might be useful to other fellow SM, so I decided to share.

However, I don't really recommend trying out exactly the same thing as I do. As for me too, I have listened to many good SM advice in the game, they all have different play styles, and after some time, I found out that finding the right build for ourselves is like singing, in which we have to find our own voice. We can't get better just by doing exactly the same thing as others did, but improve only by learning from others and building our own way.

I hope this can help my fellow SM more or less.
and good luck on the battlefield my friends.

[Culexus]

Great read. Really interesting reading another persons journey with solo roaming. It's such an underrated part of the game and I don't think there's any better way of really getting to grips with a class as there's nothing to fall back on, it's all on you. One mistimed ability and it's game over.

...and after some time, I found out that finding the right build for ourselves is like singing, in which we have to find our own voice. We can't get better just by doing exactly the same thing as others did, but improve only by learning from others and building our own way.

Best quote on the forum. /toast /drink

[Bollocks]

Thanks for the story. I found this info useful as I am starting my SM solo journey after recently leaving T1.

[Farrul]

but don't get me wrong, regen build is definitely powerful if use right, but I don't really think it a good idea for new SM to try it out first, and outside of 1v1, it is useless anyway.

For solo all tanks including SM need regen, it is not only for 1vs1 or 1vsx but the fact you have a constant HOT ticking that can't be heal-debuff, it's basically a requirment unfortunately and will be useful even when targeted by multiple foes, especially when channeling Wall of Darting steel etc it will allow to get some HP back, also when kiting back or hiding behind LOS.

Without Regen tanks would not viable for solo roaming as there are too many ranged kiters(shamans/AM), random stuff such as dots flying around etc that can and will abuse the slowness of tanks on the battlefield. The only time tanks should remove the bulk of the regen is when they have a guaranteed healer in their party.

Having said that, there is sweetspot and one shouldn't overdo it, 3xx is the sweespot which isn't hard to get from bis gear( until then use one heal tactic). For regen to work well it needs to be supported by mitigation or high avoidance, on its own weak-ish even in a 1vs1.

2nd build - DPS SM - 'Dance to Win'
with the last balance update, SM is finally in better shape than early this year, ether dance is down to 9 points, and sapping strike to give you a juicy 10% crit chance, I found that this build can bring down anyone real quick.

Sapping strike is great and i wouldn't skip it even in a '''tanky'' build, the extra dot supports etherdance spam into building more pressure on the target, SM may now have ok-ish amount of crit with sap+tactic without having to invest any of it on gear, that's a great offensive advantage to consider even when building a tankier spec.

I think the main point of this build is more survivability while still being able to deal some damage. I don't know about your solo experience, but during my playtime, there is a lot of duo, group, or wb running around and I rarely encounter any 1v1 fight, so higher survivability serves me better in my solo play. Also without crit damage, I found this build to be very effective against def WE, managed to win several encounters, but most of the time they can just jump and go invis to run away before I can finish the job anyway.

Generally to solo well on tanks a lot of situational awareness is required, no matter how good the build is if one runs into the wrong situations nothing will help.

A few advices to those that whish to try it:

1) Learn each map well, retreat points, high grounds to punt something when outnumbered, places to avoid, ambush points and so on. This will matter a lot more than a difference of 200 toughness on the gear ( 600 toughness is imho more than enough, more is not needed unless one specs into heavy absorb with Vauls buffer to support it, absorb+ toughness compliment eachother well).

2) Time of the server ( such as EU prime) is not a good time to solo on a slow tanks, does not matter if you're SM or Chosen or an IB, you'll get abused by the 6 mans running around hunting for solo players or the pug warbands desperate to kill anything random in their sight( yes will chase you half around the map, ridiculous but it is what is is). If you feel up the challenge or rather the frustration, stick to the the periphery of the map or a spot which considers point 1), do not roam around randomly as in the low population hours ( NA) in search of single or small scale enemies as this will make you an easy target for the zergs.

Generally solo roaming on tanks during low pop hours is a lot more enjoyable and there will be many interesting small scale fights.

3) Tactics, do not use bolstering enchantments(healing tactics) on SM unless you're still gearing up. This is a noob trap. There are far better tactics, the meta when up against enemy melee is to stack heavy parry (and/or riposte vs melee dps). You have an amazing tool in discerning offense that will stack with STR/2H penetration and voilà - 30 parrystrikethrough, this is very powerful to the SM since not only will it cut though the enemy parry/be effective vs riposte choppas etc but also improve your defences a lot, it the sense that even one parried Eagle's flight is a huge nerf to your sustain power(Read point above regarding regen).

The heal tactics are also vulnerable vs debuff and you need to be in melee or close range to proc them, makes them ineffective vs kiters as well.

In fact use the sentinel jewel that gives -6 parry strikethrough when solo roaming as it is more powerful than the 6% parry defence jewel in actually improving your defences, not to mention it makes the SM extremely potent vs enemy melee targets as they can no longer effecively defend themselves against your rather effective spirit damage. -40 parry strikethrough is reachable with this.

Vs Casters if you have the chance( always change tactics if you can and have different combinations against the appropriate foe ). Remove dicerning offense and put in Calming Winds, in theory SM can reach 60%+ passively disrupt with calming + def proc sword / renown and sentinel jewel with disrupt. This will help a lot more vs an enemy Magus/shaman etc than some weak-ish regen from a heal tactic that may or may not be debuffed and wont make a difference vs heavy burst classes like a good Magus anyways. Of course this will depend on if your build has Vauls buffer in it or not. I personally do not play with vauls nowdays as it is not needed with good gameplay, SM can kill fast for a tank and can still be tanky/sustain well enough with smart use of a potion, some regen , toughness.

The key and ABC of roaming should always be to kill as fast as possible to avoid adds or to take out one foe fast in a 1vsx situation, offence is the greatest defence is rather true in many situations when it comes to this class in particular.

A final point as for WE(Def). They took a hit with the Witchbrew scaling and shouldn't be as deadly anymore vs some toughness ( im on vacation and do not play much right now, i will confirm this later on). Anyway go for high parry strikethorugh and with the new Dot ( maybe add another one proc) you'll get through her absorb, SM has always been strong vs melee and imho was always one of the better classes to withstand a def WE(use 360 resist liniment- always). Do not give up your crit for a WE as you will need the burst vs other classes, SM without crit(burst) is a rather miserable experience against anything half competent.

[gyps]

...

What's your optimal amount of each stat? or bare minimum for each, str, wd, armor, etc..

[Farrul]

...

What's your optimal amount of each stat? or bare minimum for each, str, wd, armor, etc..

Assuming bis gear , on the SM i currently run 4 off-sov, 2 wl, 3 victorious. IIRC this amounts to 860-880 str, near 600 tough, 9,7k wounds, 5k + armor with a pot. 1k str and 700 + tough with natures blades and 800 tough with m1 ( they stack).

As a bare minimum depends on the build, on a more defensive oriented absorb (vauls buffer) build stacking more toughness you'll probably want to aim for as close to 700 str as possible, around or near 900 toughness in full bis. That will put you at near softcap toughness with M1 morale or stat stealing which supports the absorb.