Force Open WBs to be 2/2/2s

[Morradin]

Well this would kill the "Let's have some fun!" war bands of 15 WE, 4 tanks and 5 heals. No thanks!!!

Only seen it once back on live. Tanks and WE's loved it ... healers not so much lol

[Nameless]

There is addon that do that, so each wb leader could implement it. Alrhou at certain situations other groups configuration s could be better

[francomes]

I think a better idea that will go a long way it's to give some sort of reward to Pug Wb leaders.

It doesn't have to be something fancy, it can be as simple as +15% renown gain or whatever on the condition that the wb is open and that you can't premade it and then open.

Big problem now it's that leading Pugs it's a huge pain in the ass that it only feels rewarded once in a blue moon. If u add a reward for leaders we will have more. If the reward is for playing good (bcs for example +15 renown doesn't do anything if you don't kill a thing) then those leaders will try their best and not just mindlessly run around the map.

Could also be a good idea to put a minimum number of ppl required in the Wb for the effect to take in (so that ppl don't make a open Wb just to get the buff and have 2 ppl in it) 12 would be a good number.

[Rotgut]

"you still need leaders for pugs... there are enough discussions about sc-matchmaker and why people refuse to join parties"

Yes, this isn't about removing pug leaders, its about removing barriers. Addons or spamming /5 are all barriers that will make a X amount of players not join content. As for SCs its the same thing. Its not enough that premades will win more and give you more rewards, for some players, the Social aspect of MMOs is a barrier and they can't be bothered.


"Well this would kill the "Let's have some fun!" war bands of 15 WE, 4 tanks and 5 heals. No thanks!!! Only seen it once back on live."

So you're against this idea because of one WB setting you saw 15 years ago. Ok.


"There is addon that do that, so each wb leader could implement it. Alrhou at certain situations other groups configuration s could be better"

Yes, but addons are still a barrier. Each extra thing you have to do - download an addon or PM somebody ingame to join their WB - will make a X amount of players shy away from doing it, and that is not the best way to retain people. And 2/2/2s are not the best composition every single time, i agree, but it is a standard template that is better than random.


"I think a better idea that will go a long way it's to give some sort of reward to Pug Wb leaders... Big problem now it's that leading Pugs it's a huge pain in the ass that it only feels rewarded once in a blue moon."

I agree. Anything that incentives players to play in a way where they can enjoy all content is needed, and i argue that a 2/2/2 can do that while a random one can't. You can't siege with a random WB, you'll lose 3-6 people every wipe because there is zero chance against a 2/2/2 WB, all it can do is follow an organized WB around - which is blobbing and detrimental to the game.

I'm only afraid that better rewards isn't the answer, cuz of what SC premades shows us. Premades gets you a lot more wins and faster pops, its not even close how much better premades are to solo Q, but a lot of ppl still refuse to join them because forming one in /5 is a barrier.

[Phantasm]

I think a better idea that will go a long way it's to give some sort of reward to Pug Wb leaders.

It doesn't have to be something fancy, it can be as simple as +15% renown gain or whatever on the condition that the wb is open and that you can't premade it and then open.

Big problem now it's that leading Pugs it's a huge pain in the ass that it only feels rewarded once in a blue moon. If u add a reward for leaders we will have more. If the reward is for playing good (bcs for example +15 renown doesn't do anything if you don't kill a thing) then those leaders will try their best and not just mindlessly run around the map.

Could also be a good idea to put a minimum number of ppl required in the Wb for the effect to take in (so that ppl don't make a open Wb just to get the buff and have 2 ppl in it) 12 would be a good number.

100% THIS.

Everyone who ever tried leading warbands knows how hard and ungrateful that task is.
RoR team would make a great service to a community by implementing some incentives for people who still do it and encurage those who would in a future.

[trh382]

Its possible to disagree with someone's idea without calling them names

I think that a few of the above posters would benefit from remembering that

I think a forced 2-2-2 for open warband is too strong an intervention to move the lakes towards the desired result: more 2-2-2 bands and less blobby mismanaged bands.

Options to force 2-2-2 in the warband leaders management screen, perhaps even the default being a forced 2-2-2 might move the incentives a bit without doing something as blunt as preventing messy open warband comps

Rewards based incentives for behaviours that would be healthy for the game makes a lot of sense to me. I am not sure what approach would work best for rewarding WB leading

[Sulorie]

How about the warband lead is responsible for group compositions? Why you want to add even more handholding?
When your warband lacks class balance you search for required classes and then kick people, because you make the rules and your job is to increase the chances of your warband to win. You need no game mechanism to take away your responsibility.
Furthermore you can close your warband at any point to control who joins it.
This thread really raises expectations for the upcoming year...

[Rotgut]

How about the warband lead is responsible for group compositions? Why you want to add even more handholding?
When your warband lacks class balance you search for required classes and then kick people, because you make the rules and your job is to increase the chances of your warband to win. You need no game mechanism to take away your responsibility.
Furthermore you can close your warband at any point to control who joins it.
This thread really raises expectations for the upcoming year...

This is the classic old school gamer vs the modern gamer argument. To begin with, i am on your side, and i've done all it required.

Downloaded addons, spent time spamming /5, learned how to lead - i've leveled my Slayer from RedEye to BiS leading 2/2/2 pug warbands on Order. Then i had to go Destro cuz in the timezone i was playing in there were no competition, and did the same on a Choppa - with a lot on help on this case cuz it coincided with the emergence of Big Inc (NA Guild). The whole experience was very rewarding.

Then i went back to Order to level an Engi and in the two months or so it took to get it to BiS, i must've seen 2-3 organized pugbands that weren't Guild Warbands.

The vast majority of people do not put in the work. They'll log in, see that there is nobody to play with, and log off. Or log the other faction where there is a guild WB out, join the open WB there, and just follow the Guild WB - making for a lot of PvDoor.

What do we want to do here? Be grumpy that people don't play as hard as we want them to, or make the game easier to play? The loop for the average player should be Log In - Click on "Join Open WB" - have a shot at winning that he would never have in a random WB, because this game's basic mechanics are balanced around teams.

[Vaul]

I like this suggestion.

First though, I think putting the word "Force" in the post title created bad first impression for many people reading.

I think an option where it says "Make my party open" we could also have a checkbox saying "Make Balanced Party". Sounds nice, I'd tick it.


Imagine if people got to learn importamce of "222" type party synergy in warbands early in their game time, instead of random pugfests, world would be a lot better I think! Maybe more ppl would play tank/healer instead of repeatedly failing on dps alts too.

I would like to lead PUG WBS but I am properly put off by the hard work involved just balancing the party, having to worry about too many dps joining, needing to politely kick them, spamming /5, handling DMS etc etc. begore even thinking about an actual fight. If this was all built into the game it would be easier.

[Sulorie]

...

What do we want to do here? Be grumpy that people don't play as hard as we want them to, or make the game easier to play? The loop for the average player should be Log In - Click on "Join Open WB" - have a shot at winning that he would never have in a random WB, because this game's basic mechanics are balanced around teams.

But this won't happen!
All those DD classes online won't ever be able to join that open wb, if 2-2-2 is enforced, even as a toggle. You will need feedback for people who try to join that warband, pretty much the same as existing addons. We already had complains about "toxic" warband leaders with open warbands, who auto-kick wrong classes.
You think they will suddenly log to a class needed?

Adding the functionality of certain wb helper addons to the standard UI would be nice but then again people who need it often don't know about it.

Those with standard UI have no chance, so investing some time with addons is a requirement anyway.