After the nerf/patch SM's how are you.........

[Nekkma]

i lurk these forums for years now and never once i saw someone complaining about wods. did bg really had a mirror of that skill on live though?

The mirror was the BO block channel paired with THC beeing used with shield. This allowed both classes to basically go very offensively with an on demand panic button. Sadly they killed it on BO years ago.

[Bozzax]

BO version always was a MEME compared to WODS bc of slow and rampage … even on live

[Fey]

WoDS with no cooldown isn't exactly compelling gameplay. You aren't ever punished for using it incorrectly, because if it's interrupted you just turn it back on. Frankly that's brain-dead design.

[zgolec]

Basically on RoR: nerf 2h survivability on SM is good, leaving high suirvivability and decent dmg on BG / CH is fine... GJ.

...also nerfing all forms of CC [rip SW] while leaving mobility on shammies is absolute bonkers.

[Ysaran]

Basically on RoR: nerf 2h survivability on SM is good, leaving high suirvivability and decent dmg on BG / CH is fine... GJ.

...also nerfing all forms of CC [rip SW] while leaving mobility on shammies is absolute bonkers.

Lol, what mobility? are talking about Focused Mind? or are you talking about the puddle that is mirrored on AM? Because RAN AWAY! was nerfed ages ago and this is pretty much all the mobility shammy has

[Sofong]

should have just tone down SMs dmg out put instead of making questionable changes.

[nocturnalguest]

should have just tone down SMs dmg out put instead of making questionable changes.

Why?
2h SM brings high sustain assist dmg for group, it adds up nicely with general pressure group generates. Thats one of the main reasons to pick it in groups, its feature and identity beside its utility. At the moment it lost a little bit in regards to its panic buttons but identity is not erased. Removing its dmg will only further narrow its gameplay into WW/utility bot, we've got enough of this already with classes stuck with 1-2 builds that are somewhat working. Increasing amount of worthwhile choice is what should balance be aiming for, not decreasing. And then goes choices, choices...

[Thaodan]

Before making any changes, we ask ourselves the following question: if I want to win fairly - Without exploiting the system: "Does this way of playing / Skill / Ability / Tactic grant me an advantage that I shouldn't have? If this is ture - its need to be adressed. if not: we need to ask further: what side effects does this cause? and how does this one-sidedly influence the outcome of battles. if we assume that it will have a nevgativ input we will do everything we can to find a stable foundation for everyone based on common sense , Lore and Community. - and honeytly not, becuase to want people to suffer without a reason.

Flowson

So in regards to SM, i dont personally know or have solid opinion about it, is nerf justfied enough for wods or not and i do believe it wasnt previously gamebreaking nor i think its useless and broken now, to me the change is not that major and doesnt lead to big meta shifts in grand scheme of things. Also you cant discuss SM alone as for balance you have to consider everything else, at least need to consider all other tank performances, how they interact with group, how synergies or not, what they bring overally etc etc etc. But i can bet nobody in team did ever discuss any kind of options to provide more counterplays to wods (or wods+ww option) to balance it out. Somehow it was ultimatively judged to be nerfed and boom, here we are. Hence the reaction of people.

From my point of view WAR/RoR is already quite meta heavy, streamlining only further increases the push to play meta.
For some careers the meta is so strong that some tactics or masteries are almost required to play or are required by the
community for you to use (social pressure).
The player uses them as if they are baseline and looses the ability to diverse.
Cookie cutter builds are the meta from point of view much more than in other games.

I'm playing KotBS and SM. I would have preferred that SM and/or BO gets something unique, either separately
similar to the speed buff that BO got but SM not or something that both share in the same functionality.

To me, balancing is more about action - response and their parameters. If there is something to do, then there should be something to counter it and efforts put into both of those actions should be somewhat equal. Thats the balance. We somehow have had somewhat balanced state here but now we are in a state of meta shifts. But we never had proper approaches to balance things in RoR imo. I see it as random buff/nerf hammer swings. Many players i know share such pov too.

So tl;dr i strongly disagree that one needs to ask themselves some questions about "expoilting", "advantages" etc. There needs to be a group of people within team with very deep game knowledge, ideally big enough, which should understand clearly "action" -> "response" and their parameters. And there has to be some lead balance dev that would thinktank meta shifts designs so after few years this "balance" wouldnt lead to a total boredomness for players.

Part of the issue here is that in such a small team there are only a few that work on balancing and those
that approve the balancing changes by person or persons that work on them.

Because the small base of those which research, suggest and approve changes the ability to verify the reasons for suggested changes is impacted.
I think it's very important to separate gameplay knowledge, theory crafting and personal experience.
Why are certain abilities strong, why does career XYZ does so bad against career XY or situation Z? Why
does is the career so strong in situation X and against career YZ? What makes the career unique in their weaknesses, strengths and mechanics?

Did my situation I experienced with career XZ really happened because of the career I played, because of the
situation I was in or because of me?
Some players have difficulty with certain situations and careers while some have not.

I think it is very important to leverage the manpower of the community to receive input for observations, theory crafting,
suggestions and verifications of changes.
Communications is important.
In the end the decision is of course with the RoR team but the workload on the developers can reduce by taking the community into account and provide knowledge that the developers of the project don't have.

[Farrul]

I can agree with the philosophy behind nerfing WODS but the execution is ill conceived and i would ask the balance team to reconsider this nerf.

The reason is very simple :

There are too many random interrupts and aoe effects flying around leaving a 2H SM practically defenseless in its current state. Even without a CD one had to spam the ability multiple times to even keep it up.

Do please keep in mind that 2H swordmasters do not have the durability of other 2h tanks, they do not have auras of kotbs/chosen nor the tactics of a BG/IB to keep them alive. WODS was too strong admitely but this change has left it near useless in a practial battle for the aforementioned reason.

Solution: Remove the CD and lower it down to 35-40%. Solution 2 :Increase the AP cost for less uptime.

[Thaodan]

I wonder if it is warranted to nerv it for the edge cases it is used where it does not affected the greater picture.
Nobody will play SM because of this skill it has other downsides.