Pug Leads We Need To Talk

[Rubius]

I think both statements can be true at the same time:

1. Pug warband leaders are very important for the game
2. Pug leaders who do a bad job can upset the people in their warbands

As anyone who has tried leading them will tell you, Pug warbands are tough. It's often like herding cats, and has been even since live; that's just human nature. But I think it's important that if we see pug leads we don't enjoy, we try to give them constructive feedback or help them learn what we're hoping they can improve for the future.

If they choose not to learn or change, then you simply don't join that pug lead down the road or choose to step up and show them how to do it better by leading yourself.

[Vri]

I think both statements can be true at the same time:

1. Pug warband leaders are very important for the game
2. Pug leaders who do a bad job can upset the people in their warbands

As anyone who has tried leading them will tell you, Pug warbands are tough. It's often like herding cats, and has been even since live; that's just human nature. But I think it's important that if we see pug leads we don't enjoy, we try to give them constructive feedback or help them learn what we're hoping they can improve for the future.

If they choose not to learn or change, then you simply don't join that pug lead down the road or choose to step up and show them how to do it better by leading yourself.

Thank you for your reply !

[carthagerising]

Wait....you can organize in this game!?

Just wanted to say that despite the...negative energy of the post, OP had a point about mindless busy work that you end up with in some "Org WB's". It feels that certain tasks quickly drift below the WB's time, particularly when the lead feels they have some combat power and can "get **** done". No one likes boxes but give a guy on a power trip 20 people following him and you know nothings being levelled while you "roam" and kill the same magus/shaman.

Leading pugs can be both the best and worst this game has to offer. It is a great feeling when you collect a wb of strangers and progress through a couple of zones together. Even better when you win fights and gel over time, even more so when you win the pug wars against the other side.

But at the same time, the personnel management, finding the right types of classes, herding cats, the responsibility of 23 other peoples play time in your hands and balancing your own personal goals and objectives can add up over time and causes tyranical behavior and outbursts by those stepping up and creates a vicious cycle.

I just wish there was some kind of system in place to reward the WB lead. Its a critical function of the game, a lot of work at times and gives you nothing outside of the "recognition" which is nice over time but.....cant a bro get some crests here? At the same time, punish **** ones. how you would do that in this game is beyond me but its an ongoing problem of the realm critical role either being done badly or not at all and rvr suffers for it.

[Xergon]

I think both statements can be true at the same time:

1. Pug warband leaders are very important for the game
2. Pug leaders who do a bad job can upset the people in their warbands

As anyone who has tried leading them will tell you, Pug warbands are tough. It's often like herding cats, and has been even since live; that's just human nature. But I think it's important that if we see pug leads we don't enjoy, we try to give them constructive feedback or help them learn what we're hoping they can improve for the future.

If they choose not to learn or change, then you simply don't join that pug lead down the road or choose to step up and show them how to do it better by leading yourself.

Indeed thats very true, therefor there should be more incentive or promotion for more organized gameplay, how to do it, idk tbh. From one side restricting to more content to team play can do it but from another side it will limit access for more already spare population. Its very thin balance. I would truly love to understand or if its possible how long (if its happening at all) is for a very fresh new player to progress to tier 4 and then move from random PUG joining to actually Guild/Alliance RvR participating.

How to encourage and explain ppl that organized gameplay is the way for groups/classes to work or perform in RvR (or any content tbh). The more ppl put effort in the more enjoyable their experience and time playing will be. Ofc there is completely nothing wrong from *pugging* from time to time, but by doing it u need to accept limitation it brings. As i rmb it from live, random pug was fine to do PQs n stuff but in RvR it changes as soon as u meet opposition that puts effort in.

When i started playing on this server i was solo WH w.o plan to play in group/guild or anything, i was just enjoying the game again. I got invited to guild (Gaiscioch) that was doing PvE events that was running through zones and doing PQs, it was kinda fun at that time. From there i progressed WH and WP to tier4 purely from PvE, doing some SCs from time to time, and then i stepped into RvR and fall in love in it. I was bad but i loved how much options it offered and i wanted to play better. I made Knight so i had all 3 archetypes. I learned a lot from playing in 7th warbands led by Erihon. Pug bands led by Gdy or Chezy was also a lot fun had plenty of good fights/action. Those leaders understood their limitations, even though they tried to encourage ppl to play via discord but it was not necessary but they did not expect to be main force in the RvR, they understood how to play around organized groups. Then i joined DnD(Redguard) and it showed me true way of hardcore RvR to the max.

From my experience i think guilds are the core soil of the gameplay RvR, some guilds stopped playing for very various reasons, its hard to appeal to all of them. My biggest regret is lost chance in endgame content in form of city sieges, times when we had 30 instances popping was very crucial moment. How to solve RvR endgame loop, idk. Funny enough i rmb times before forts and before cities, non cared about it, it was just pure fight in the zones, for kills, for pride, for fights.

Just wanted to say that despite the...negative energy of the post, OP had a point about mindless busy work that you end up with in some "Org WB's". It feels that certain tasks quickly drift below the WB's time, particularly when the lead feels they have some combat power and can "get **** done". No one likes boxes but give a guy on a power trip 20 people following him and you know nothings being levelled while you "roam" and kill the same magus/shaman.

Leading pugs can be both the best and worst this game has to offer. It is a great feeling when you collect a wb of strangers and progress through a couple of zones together. Even better when you win fights and gel over time, even more so when you win the pug wars against the other side.

But at the same time, the personnel management, finding the right types of classes, herding cats, the responsibility of 23 other peoples play time in your hands and balancing your own personal goals and objectives can add up over time and causes tyranical behavior and outbursts by those stepping up and creates a vicious cycle.

I just wish there was some kind of system in place to reward the WB lead. Its a critical function of the game, a lot of work at times and gives you nothing outside of the "recognition" which is nice over time but.....cant a bro get some crests here? At the same time, punish **** ones. how you would do that in this game is beyond me but its an ongoing problem of the realm critical role either being done badly or not at all and rvr suffers for it.

Yup, time spent in pug is big rng, it can be fun or not. At least i had luck to be in pug with ppl i know and played a lot so even if it was bad outcomes we had good times and fun playing with eachother regardless. Usually it started as 6/12 man expanding to full WB, that form of WB can work and do some things in the RvR.

[Cyrylius]

Pug warbands are formed so that players preferring group play have a counterplay against solo roamers, who have natural advantage without a group.
Organized warbands are formed when pug warbands from one side get scared by the pug warbands on the other side, and same group players get tired of being killed by groups of random players with little more but gathering in one group.
Then there is a bit of arms race about who can get the most organized and elite players in a warband and lead them effectively.
Then the last remaining warband disbanded after some pvdoor cause there's nothing to fight, leaving only solo roamers in the zone.
Then, pug warbands are formed...

[RORquest]

OP solo class to kill solos = WH/WE/WL
6 party premades to kill solos
24 wbpugs to kill 6 party premades
24 organised wb to kill 24 pugs wb
zergs to 24 organised wb

this is the way

[Bassywassy28]

OP solo class to kill solos = WH/WE/WL
6 party premades to kill solos
24 wbpugs to kill 6 party premades
24 organised wb to kill 24 pugs wb
zergs to 24 organised wb

this is the way

You forgot 3 organized wb's to kill one.

[Vri]

OP solo class to kill solos = WH/WE/WL
6 party premades to kill solos
24 wbpugs to kill 6 party premades
24 organised wb to kill 24 pugs wb
zergs to 24 organised wb

this is the way

You forgot 3 organized wb's to kill one.

For sure!