Trust me if you have endgear choppa he will still chew thru tanks HP even if he is in endgame gear too, no matter how much you stack defenses on tanks. If you nerf it more it will be even bigger hit and healers will have to focus more on upkeeping the choppa+tank leading to other problems im not gonna disclose as it is a thread that can be shortened to "I dont know how to deal with tanks soo ill cry". Order has rampage that will rekt thru those defences and destro has aoe knockdown of mara that will also chew thru people.lumpi33 wrote: ↑Sun May 21, 2023 10:55 pmFor badly geared players it is probably a death sentence, yes, but for the 80+ people in end game gear it is not a death sentence at all. Just have an eye on these melee premades. You can throw whatever you have at them and they will just shrug it off. Why? Reduced chance to crit, high parry, high wounds, charge to get out, absorbs, heals, potions, morals, tanks supporting them. For these people the 50% guard is a complete overkill. In orvr and more so in small scale. Choppa/slayer are supposed to die easily. That's how they were designed. The game offers quick rezzing without draw backs for the rezzed one. Lowering the guard to something like 35% would be perfectly fine. It would be still very powerful.
To some degree yes. However, what you can see in orvr is a whole lot different story. Just recently we tried to fight a 24 man premade with a whole lot of people. Like twice as many (small groups and solos). Couldn't kill any of them while they did the same trick over and over again, falling back, waiting for morals, pushing in, mowing everything down in seconds with their aoe train and rushing back again. After 20 mins of back and forth (they were close to out warcamp) they had like 200 kills, the attackers maybe 10. Scenes like these happening every day.
They probably had a blast, yeah, but what they were actually doing is abusing the best setup and classes to the maximum and minimizing their risk. Unless you have the same abusing melee aoe premade on your side you will not be able to take them down. Ranged aoe is soo far away from that melee aoe blobbing that it's not fun anymore. You are basically useless as a ranged dd against these setups. You can't stack the aoe, the channels have long cooldowns, damage is low, it is just getting shrugged off. Even if you try to burst some with single target you wont get them down because you cannot burn through 8-10k of wounds fast enough when 8 healers are watching. Even if you succeed, they will be rezzed a few seconds after.
Long story short: melee aoe can be stacked unlimited with low cooldowns, great damage, medium armor classes, good morals and guard that takes off the risk from them while as ranged aoe you have less armor, less defense, less aoe damage, less escape abilities, no stacking and the tank should be in front not in the back at you. You don't have to be a genius to see that this is not working out well. Thus the current melee blob aoe meta where you can't kill the choppa/slayer because of guard, nor the super tough tank who is guarding with a setup that is not the same abusing aoe meta setup.
The game has turned more and more into a "who is having more of these aoe melee meta blobbing premades". The rest doesn't really matter. Instead of everybody having fun and getting kills only these elite premades are actually having the fun, stomping others with almost no risk. This ain't fun.
You say people stack only melee champs but i quite often see in those "melee destro blobs" a lot of sorcs, fact for a warband it is probably one or two but add one warband into another and you get 4 of them and even more if certain person decided to blob whole order. Not to say that other solo/duo sorcs love to surf on back of melee train warbands. The issue of melee blob is that there is not a lot of range chars that are very good at aoe except for sorc/bw, not to say that the people behind the game seem to enjoy people blobbing rather than keeping them spread (look at removal of anti blob mechanic, look at the relic run event we have rn)
And you can't even cry about tanks in smallscale as you can just kick him away and kill the dps/healer and then he becomes a beating bag. In 1v1 tanks are more about outlasting enemy (those 90dmg attacks will chew you down if it takes ages to kill him) than killing them unless they run 2h but in 2h you can more or less easily hit them as ranged (as we all know majority of solo meta is AM/SHAM or other ranged kiting chars and most of people will not stack dodge/disrupt)
But this is my personal opinion because i never had issue with tanks. Maybe there is some secret ultra damage sponge tank club that is bullying order.
Not to say that what you are looking at videos is just fluff numbers getting healed unless you have like half of wb worth of spike chosens.
Oh also about beating lower numbers with bigger unorganised blobs (Unless you get like 3x bigger numbers or you introduce some amount of organisation to the blob), that does not work due to three things, first they are organised soo they organise challenges/m3's/morale drops/channels etc. Second YOU WILL NOT kill them with just 2x bigger numbers especially if your bigger number consists of solos and 6mans that are not organised. Third, giving them morales by waiting out will just end in faster wipe. If it was near WC you could have used cannons to get some kills, despite how those bad boys look they do a lot of damage (151 kills worth of damage if you have whole blob farming near wc like in LoTD)
If you look at forum you will see a video of like 12 man (or was it wb?) of organised people rekting order in eatine even tho they were lowbie gear and some of them were not even lv40.
