Lots of Numbers: 100k ORVR kills by careers

[lumpi33]

Hey,

title says it already. Here is a new data evaluation I did today. It is over around 100k orvr kills over the last days.

Total kills: 112797

Order kills: 56908
Destr kills: 55889

Total Order Players: 3591
Total Destro Players: 3571

How to read the next two tables: Slayers did 12064 kills of the total evaluated
56908 kills by Order. That's 21.2% of all Order kills. 291 Slayers were counted.
That's 8.1% of the 3591 Order players counted. Each Slayer killed 41.46 Destros
on average.

Note: Kill means most damage done to victim.

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ORDER - MOST KILLING BY CAREER (KILLS. PLAYERS. KILLS/PLAYERS):
SLAYER                  12064 -  21.2%      291 -   8.1%    41.46
WITCH_HUNTER            10281 - 18.07%      420 -  11.7%    24.48
WHITE_LION               9814 - 17.25%      285 -  7.94%    34.44
BRIGHT_WIZARD            8085 - 14.21%      288 -  8.02%    28.07
SHADOW_WARRIOR           5676 -  9.97%      276 -  7.69%    20.57
ENGINEER                 4547 -  7.99%      298 -   8.3%    15.26
ARCHMAGE                 3332 -  5.86%      309 -   8.6%    10.78
SWORDMASTER               788 -  1.38%      220 -  6.13%     3.58
WARRIOR_PRIEST            655 -  1.15%      355 -  9.89%     1.85
IRONBREAKER               634 -  1.11%      241 -  6.71%     2.63
KNIGHT                    628 -   1.1%      297 -  8.27%     2.11
RUNE_PRIEST               404 -  0.71%      311 -  8.66%      1.3

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DESTRO - MOST KILLING BY CAREER (KILLS. PLAYERS. KILLS/PLAYERS):
CHOPPA                  11825 - 21.16%      334 -  9.35%     35.4
WITCH_ELF                9430 - 16.87%      366 - 10.25%    25.77
SQUIG_HERDER             9155 - 16.38%      305 -  8.54%    30.02
SORCERER                 8201 - 14.67%      282 -   7.9%    29.08
MARAUDER                 4905 -  8.78%      246 -  6.89%    19.94
MAGUS                    3940 -  7.05%      209 -  5.85%    18.85
SHAMAN                   3704 -  6.63%      460 - 12.88%     8.05
CHOSEN                   1430 -  2.56%      357 -    10%     4.01
BLACK_ORC                1124 -  2.01%      234 -  6.55%      4.8
BLACKGUARD               1110 -  1.99%      215 -  6.02%     5.16
DISCIPLE                 1007 -   1.8%      282 -   7.9%     3.57
ZEALOT                     58 -   0.1%      281 -  7.87%     0.21

How to read the next two tables: WHs were 7834 times killed by Destro. That's 14.02%
of the 55889 kills they had. 420 WHs were counted. That's 11.7% of the 3591 Order players
counted. Each WH died 18.65 times on average.

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ORDER - MOST DYING BY CAREER (VICTIMS. PLAYERS. VICTIMS/PLAYERS):
WITCH_HUNTER             7834 - 14.02%      420 -  11.7%    18.65
SLAYER                   5957 - 10.66%      291 -   8.1%    20.47
WARRIOR_PRIEST           5024 -  8.99%      355 -  9.89%    14.15
WHITE_LION               4982 -  8.91%      285 -  7.94%    17.48
BRIGHT_WIZARD            4377 -  7.83%      288 -  8.02%     15.2
ARCHMAGE                 4355 -  7.79%      309 -   8.6%    14.09
IRONBREAKER              4293 -  7.68%      241 -  6.71%    17.81
ENGINEER                 4237 -  7.58%      298 -   8.3%    14.22
KNIGHT                   3902 -  6.98%      297 -  8.27%    13.14
RUNE_PRIEST              3880 -  6.94%      311 -  8.66%    12.48
SHADOW_WARRIOR           3816 -  6.83%      276 -  7.69%    13.83
SWORDMASTER              3232 -  5.78%      220 -  6.13%    14.69

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DESTRO - MOST DYING BY CAREER (VICTIMS. PLAYERS. VICTIMS/PLAYERS):
CHOPPA                   7655 - 13.45%      334 -  9.35%    22.92
WITCH_ELF                6967 - 12.24%      366 - 10.25%    19.04
SHAMAN                   6697 - 11.77%      460 - 12.88%    14.56
CHOSEN                   5277 -  9.27%      357 -    10%    14.78
SQUIG_HERDER             4749 -  8.35%      305 -  8.54%    15.57
BLACK_ORC                4295 -  7.55%      234 -  6.55%    18.35
DISCIPLE                 4127 -  7.25%      282 -   7.9%    14.63
SORCERER                 4067 -  7.15%      282 -   7.9%    14.42
BLACKGUARD               3961 -  6.96%      215 -  6.02%    18.42
MARAUDER                 3732 -  6.56%      246 -  6.89%    15.17
ZEALOT                   2728 -  4.79%      281 -  7.87%     9.71
MAGUS                    2653 -  4.66%      209 -  5.85%    12.69

RR80 and higher Killers only:

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ORDER - MOST KILLING BY CAREER (KILLS. PLAYERS. KILLS/PLAYERS):
SLAYER                   8158 - 27.46%      223 -   8.3%    36.58
BRIGHT_WIZARD            5335 - 17.96%      205 -  7.63%    26.02
WHITE_LION               5217 - 17.56%      222 -  8.26%     23.5
WITCH_HUNTER             4443 - 14.96%      300 - 11.16%    14.81
SHADOW_WARRIOR           2490 -  8.38%      192 -  7.15%    12.97
ARCHMAGE                 1537 -  5.17%      242 -  9.01%     6.35
ENGINEER                 1326 -  4.46%      216 -  8.04%     6.14
SWORDMASTER               302 -  1.02%      163 -  6.07%     1.85
RUNE_PRIEST               282 -  0.95%      242 -  9.01%     1.17
WARRIOR_PRIEST            264 -  0.89%      260 -  9.68%     1.02
IRONBREAKER               234 -  0.79%      193 -  7.18%     1.21
KNIGHT                    120 -   0.4%      229 -  8.52%     0.52

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DESTRO - MOST KILLING BY CAREER (KILLS. PLAYERS. KILLS/PLAYERS):
CHOPPA                   6792 - 26.03%      264 -  9.58%    25.73
SQUIG_HERDER             4792 - 18.37%      235 -  8.53%    20.39
WITCH_ELF                4538 - 17.39%      291 - 10.56%    15.59
SORCERER                 3654 -    14%      219 -  7.95%    16.68
MARAUDER                 2054 -  7.87%      186 -  6.75%    11.04
SHAMAN                   1861 -  7.13%      364 - 13.21%     5.11
MAGUS                     773 -  2.96%      146 -   5.3%     5.29
DISCIPLE                  454 -  1.74%      225 -  8.16%     2.02
BLACKGUARD                450 -  1.72%      170 -  6.17%     2.65
CHOSEN                    353 -  1.35%      265 -  9.62%     1.33
BLACK_ORC                 344 -  1.32%      181 -  6.57%      1.9
ZEALOT                     28 -  0.11%      210 -  7.62%     0.13

RR80 and higher Victims only:

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ORDER - MOST DYING BY CAREER (VICTIMS. PLAYERS. VICTIMS/PLAYERS):
WITCH_HUNTER             2129 - 14.38%      217 - 13.86%     9.81
SLAYER                   1918 - 12.96%      179 - 11.43%    10.72
WHITE_LION               1495 -  10.1%      175 - 11.17%     8.54
BRIGHT_WIZARD            1366 -  9.23%      140 -  8.94%     9.76
ARCHMAGE                 1189 -  8.03%      125 -  7.98%     9.51
IRONBREAKER              1140 -   7.7%       84 -  5.36%    13.57
RUNE_PRIEST              1116 -  7.54%       78 -  4.98%    14.31
SHADOW_WARRIOR           1032 -  6.97%      142 -  9.07%     7.27
WARRIOR_PRIEST            997 -  6.74%       85 -  5.43%    11.73
SWORDMASTER               942 -  6.36%       88 -  5.62%     10.7
KNIGHT                    842 -  5.69%       99 -  6.32%     8.51
ENGINEER                  636 -   4.3%      154 -  9.83%     4.13

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DESTRO - MOST DYING BY CAREER (VICTIMS. PLAYERS. VICTIMS/PLAYERS):
CHOPPA                   2027 - 17.02%      195 -  12.1%    10.39
SHAMAN                   1589 - 13.35%      155 -  9.62%    10.25
WITCH_ELF                1567 - 13.16%      229 - 14.21%     6.84
SQUIG_HERDER             1164 -  9.78%      177 - 10.98%     6.58
CHOSEN                    888 -  7.46%      117 -  7.26%     7.59
BLACK_ORC                 859 -  7.21%       88 -  5.46%     9.76
BLACKGUARD                831 -  6.98%       86 -  5.33%     9.66
DISCIPLE                  825 -  6.93%       85 -  5.27%     9.71
MARAUDER                  629 -  5.28%      129 -     8%     4.88
SORCERER                  611 -  5.13%      163 - 10.11%     3.75
ZEALOT                    606 -  5.09%       73 -  4.53%      8.3
MAGUS                     311 -  2.61%      115 -  7.13%      2.7

Soooo, what can we tell from these numbers? For me a few things stand out:

- Slayers and Choppas are by far the best ORVR killers. Their aoe damage and tools
(rampage/pulls) is without a doubt overpowered.
e.g. Over all renown ranks Slayers "trippled" the killing of Engineers.
e.g. rr80+ Slayers did more than 6 times the killing of rr80+ Engineers.

- Engineer and Magus are by far the worst ORVR killers. They have no time to
set up and ramp up. Their aoe / dots are weak.

- Comparing the first tables with the rr80+ tables at the end shows that the
gap between the careers increases with the renown rank. e.g. Slayers even
more dominant, Engis even worse.

- There are too many WHs, WEs and Shamans.

- High RR Magus and Sorcerers are not dying often enough. Order ranged dps is weak
and they don't have to fight that nasty choppa/mara pulls. Magus also has
a third potion with Aegis.

- High RR Engineers are not dying often enough. Not as good as Magus and Sorc but
still outstanding.

- High RR Maras are not dying often enough. 4.88 avg deaths per Mara is pretty nuts
for a melee close range career.

Cheers.

EDITS: formatting only

[wachlarz]

magus aegis is now joke. Skill prottect against one auto attack crit.

[Snowhawk]

You dont see and dont count all tanks and healers in backline.
A slayer can do 10kills but got 2 healers and 1 tank 4 Players for 10 kills

[lumpi33]

magus aegis is now joke. Skill prottect against one auto attack crit.

I disagree and numbers say something different. Your comments tend to be very biased also.

[lumpi33]

You dont see and dont count all tanks and healers in backline.
A slayer can do 10kills but got 2 healers and 1 tank 4 Players for 10 kills

That doesn't matter. An engi could use that setup as well.

[wachlarz]

magus aegis is now joke. Skill prottect against one auto attack crit.

I disagree and numbers say something different. Your comments tend to be very biased also.

U suggest to make magus more squishy ?

[ravezaar]

"- Slayers and Choppas are by far the best ORVR killers. Their aoe damage and tools
(rampage/pulls) is without a doubt overpowered."

just a little thing but it annoys me everytime. The GtdC pull does dmg but Rampage does 0 dmg so maybe change text to rampage+ID/pulls ? just a suggestion cause what I say is more accurate

[Fenris78]

Nice stats which show the blatant unbalance of some classes, under or overplayed, and their relative efficiency.

However, those stats cannot really show accurate data because there are too much variables, like warband composition (take Freebootaz and Bitterstone warbands, you got a huge amount of greenskins / engineers in the lake, and accordingly to their playtime, more kills/death from these classes).

But it however shows that clearly solo classes (Shamans, WEs, WHs) are overplayed, wich is probably to the healthiest for a team-based game.

[Lileldys]

Spoiler:

- Slayers and Choppas are by far the best ORVR killers. Their aoe damage and tools
(rampage/pulls) is without a doubt overpowered.
e.g. Over all renown ranks Slayers "trippled" the killing of Engineers.
e.g. rr80+ Slayers did more than 6 times the killing of rr80+ Engineers.

- Engineer and Magus are by far the worst ORVR killers. They have no time to
set up and ramp up. Their aoe / dots are weak.

- Comparing the first tables with the rr80+ tables at the end shows that the
gap between the careers increases with the renown rank. e.g. Slayers even
more dominant, Engis even worse.

- There are too many WHs, WEs and Shamans.

- High RR Magus and Sorcerers are not dying often enough. Order ranged dps is weak
and they don't have to fight that nasty choppa/mara pulls. Magus also has
a third potion with Aegis.

- High RR Engineers are not dying often enough. Not as good as Magus and Sorc but
still outstanding.

- High RR Maras are not dying often enough. 4.88 avg deaths per Mara is pretty nuts
for a melee close range career.

Cheers.

EDITS: formatting only

SL/CH - For the longest time have been top killers in RvR but I disagree that the reason is pull/rampage, moreso the reworked Bring it On/Retribution. If these were reverted to the live versions I'd expect a swing in popularity.

Magus/Engi have always been more utility focussed on RvR so makes sense.

Gear gap is a big issue, with classes that rely on dual stats i.e Str+WS, will scale better with stronger sets. This post doesn't say about ranks, but wouldn't be supprised if some of the engi stats are skewed due to bitterstone thunderers RP.

3 classes that are mainly played solo, not supprised these probably peak higher during lower pop hours.

Several high tier Sorcs/Magus playing in RDPS gank squads won't die as often, similar thing for engi and I'd say BW too but most people play BW bomb whereas destro prefers less sorcs now in WBs.

Mara has such good survivability that I'm not supprised their death rate is pretty low. High initiative, ignoring armour pen, deadly clutch etc etc makes it a troublesome class to deal with

[Tyrodan]

Drawing deductions from raw data is very dangerous. There are a lot of inherent variables that are not shown in your data set. Take Sl + Choppa vs Engi / Magus for example:

Both sl and choppa have a cookie cutter build for wb play that pretty much everyone plays. Magus on the other hand has a very strong solo st build, that is only second to am / shaman. Naturally most magi in the lakes run this build, which results in lesser kills overall, because of lack of aoe. Despite not being as strong as a magus, engi also has a very fun snipe build that is used by many puggers as well as the BT.

Comparing classes that are overwhelmingly played in single target mode with aoe classes won't get you anywhere. It's the same with classes being killed:

Shamans are super strong solo classes, so naturally they do a lot more solo roaming. Since this playstile is a lot more dangerous than wb-play this results in having a lot more per capita deaths than zealots, who are naturally playing more in warbands.

It's okay to give an overview for shits and giggles, but please don't make any assumptions, especially in terms of balancing. Your data set just doesn't support this.