LOTD balance anyone?

[Ninjagon]

Looks pretty even to me. Order had a slight advantage in numbers (221:214) and kills (1556:1434) but far from a huge lead.

It could be that Destro players left after the first couple of wipes. Can't tell that from the data. On the other hand neither side dominated the other in regards of kills. So again, it looks pretty even. Looking at the Order guilds that were in there Im actually surprised it wasn't more in favour of Order. They had strong guilds going.

Yes, thx for info.

43 Shamans - whow!

[Grimir]

LOTD is an event at the specific place with a special win conditions. You cannot compare classic campaign or fortresses with LOTD and use that as an valid argument.

Actually, forts = 5-0 for order.
Forts are events at specific place with special win conditions, just like LOTD.
But in this case (5-0 for order !!!) you have nothing to say about ? Nothing to complain about... ?
Funny...

[Ninjagon]

LOTD is an event at the specific place with a special win conditions. You cannot compare classic campaign or fortresses with LOTD and use that as an valid argument.

Actually, forts = 5-0 for order.
Forts are events at specific place with special win conditions, just like LOTD.
But in this case (5-0 for order !!!) you have nothing to say about ? Nothing to complain about... ?
Funny...

And you think that actual forts 5 : 0 for this week means something? How long do you play the game, that you forgot, that exactly opposite numbers were there, not so long ago?

But you are missing the point there. Forts have stable rules for population balance, that we all know and see and I think that they are set well: for attackers and for defenders. I dont care who actually wins when the rules are correct.

Rules for scenarios are correct too, no matter how many times premade X beats pug Y, understand?

But (I think) that the rules for LOTD are NOT correct.

[inoeth]

rofl do we play the same game? order is fkn dominating Orvr since at least two years with ridicolous numbers, still people keep on crying the forums for destro nerfs.
let us have our shiny moments in lotd

This is the last time i react to your posts Inoeth, which are silly, uncompetent, not true and the worst: totally off topic!

This is the place for balancing proposals, no matter which side has currently the upper hand. So if you suffer from domination, go and cry elsewhere!

not a single git was given that day, some people seem to never learn...
well what to expect from someone who seems to be proud of not taking a look on the other side. "uncompetent" oh you mean incompetent? if so, that applies to you mr. order only.
as far as i see it, you are the one crying over destro wins in lotd, not me.

so funny how people like you always try to ad hominem when they realize someone disturbs their agenda.

lol

[lumpi33]

Thanks for the data, didn't expect that. The WB i was a part of, was pretty much the last full intact one standing at the very end of that LOTD. Definetly noticed destro leaving about halfway through.

Where do you get these stats from btw? Doubt they are publicly accessible, would be sweet if they are though.

The data is from the killboard. There is a public interface for it.

You can test your queries there: http://production-api.waremu.com/graphql/

You can do something like this:

{
kills(last: 30)
{
nodes
{
id
time
victim
{
character
{
name,
career,
level,
renownRank
}
guild {
name
}
}
attackers
{
character
{
name,
career,
level,
renownRank
}
guild {
name
}
}
position {
zoneId
}
time,
scenarioId
}
pageInfo
{
hasNextPage,
startCursor,
endCursor
}
totalCount,
__typename
}

}

... to query the last 30 kills. This is also shown as recent kills on the Killboard main page. There is also a schema reference on the graphql page where every method you can use is explained.

The rest is just some code to count kills and create the summary. Google for GraphQL libraries for your fav programming language then your can easily do it yourself.

[Evilspinnre]

And you think that actual forts 5 : 0 for this week means something? How long do you play the game, that you forgot, that exactly opposite numbers were there, not so long ago?

But you are missing the point there. Forts have stable rules for population balance, that we all know and see and I think that they are set well: for attackers and for defenders. I dont care who actually wins when the rules are correct.

Actually forts are imbalanced when there is an abundance of attackers, as seen by the many 168vs50 forts over the past years.

Ninja, you are missing the obvious elephant in the room - any even numbered contest for Bene will result in a loss.

[JohnnyWayne]

Ninja, you are missing the obvious elephant in the room - any even numbered contest for Bene will result in a loss.

You are missing the point: It is not about specific guilds. Its about creating fights that are fair in scenario like environments. And it seems people are afraid of that. Personally I always said that there should be a minimum of 30 attackers (maybe 50, open for discussion) for a fort and everything more than that should only increase by the given ratio depending on defenders. But that is besides the topic here - even if order loses lotd with balanced numbers, they would have less of an excuse for losing.

[wonshot]

Ninja, you are missing the obvious elephant in the room - any even numbered contest for Bene will result in a loss.

....You are missing the point: It is not about specific guilds. Its about creating fights that are fair in scenario like environments...

Hmmmm. But isnt it already fair? Both realms have the same initial spots, both realms have the option to back-fill spots from anyone on their side leaving. The only difference would be if one realm is having better quality, more quantity to backfill or initially fill their reservations, or if they have better strategic & communication going on. right?

And there could be multiple reasons and factors playing into this.
But if Order has a trackrecord of not Winning (not in kills, but actually getting the message of winning and golden cartoshes plus renown tick) that might lead to having a harder time filling their warbands, have less motivation, and might break easier with their pugs and premades leaving when getting behind.
Or as mentioned, it could also be that Destro is putting more focus on LOTD than Order and have more people, guilds, builders upprioritizing this gamemode.

Only thing even remotely to being "unfair" between the realms in LOTD, would be that the antizerg debuff is (imo) affecting Order's main realm-advantages in damage&healing, where as destros moralepump and soft/hard CC advantage is not affected by this debuff, which ironicly makes it silly seeing Order have tendancies to continue approaching the gamemode with blobbing.

Whitchhunters Anon sending 1-2 stealthers to Each BO and backcapping or reporting intell could massively turn this around for Order, just saying

[Uberlix]

Thanks for the data, didn't expect that. The WB i was a part of, was pretty much the last full intact one standing at the very end of that LOTD. Definetly noticed destro leaving about halfway through.

Where do you get these stats from btw? Doubt they are publicly accessible, would be sweet if they are though.

The data is from the killboard. There is a public interface for it.

You can test your queries there: http://production-api.waremu.com/graphql/

You can do something like this:

... to query the last 30 kills. This is also shown as recent kills on the Killboard main page. There is also a schema reference on the graphql page where every method you can use is explained.

The rest is just some code to count kills and create the summary. Google for GraphQL libraries for your fav programming language then your can easily do it yourself.

Thanks, this is really informative.

Getting LOTD statistics is the one time that despicable killboard is actually doing any good yahoo.

I will miss out on the LOTD on Saturday, since i am busy going to a concert. LOTD is the thing i look the most forward to in terms of RoR each week, ngl.

[JohnnyWayne]

Hmmmm. But isnt it already fair? Both realms have the same initial spots, both realms have the option to back-fill spots from anyone on their side leaving. The only difference would be if one realm is having better quality, more quantity to backfill or initially fill their reservations, or if they have better strategic & communication going on. right?

And there could be multiple reasons and factors playing into this.
But if Order has a trackrecord of not Winning (not in kills, but actually getting the message of winning and golden cartoshes plus renown tick) that might lead to having a harder time filling their warbands, have less motivation, and might break easier with their pugs and premades leaving when getting behind.
Or as mentioned, it could also be that Destro is putting more focus on LOTD than Order and have more people, guilds, builders upprioritizing this gamemode.

I think its not fair to shove off balancing for game modes onto a non existing hive mind of factions. Balance of setups should be on an enforced player level, not some meta balance that has proven to not work in the past and that is bluntly put advantageous the realm with more players.

Only thing even remotely to being "unfair" between the realms in LOTD, would be that the antizerg debuff is (imo) affecting Order's main realm-advantages in damage&healing, where as destros moralepump and soft/hard CC advantage is not affected by this debuff, which ironicly makes it silly seeing Order have tendancies to continue approaching the gamemode with blobbing.

Whitchhunters Anon sending 1-2 stealthers to Each BO and backcapping or reporting intell could massively turn this around for Order, just saying

Regarding the blob balance mechanic - actually a intersting point that I didn't consider a problem so far. From experience, order wins on kills because order has more organized warbads (3+ if its a full lotd) running, that prefer fighting as such. From my observation destros are running a lot more small scale ganking / kiting groups who are the reason BOs are capped everywhere and WBs can't split off to take care of that. If they would, they'd lose the major fights instantly. That theory is also backed up by considering the 40+ shamans showing up on the killboard.

All in all, I don't think order always lost because of faction balance, but it had its relevant part in it. And it could easily be fixed. The other part seems to be the unwillingness of order to play small scale. Part of the reason could be the clear destro dominance in classes that can kite well and still are good in comparison (I'm look at you, SW, BW and AM (good damage, way worse kiting)), but thats a discussion for another day I guess.