motivation killer coppa pull and dps shamie ... ? overtuned?

[Sinisterror]

But was FUN...sometimes looks like ppl for get that games need to be fun....

Most broken stuff is fun for someone.

Z axis in rift/magnet wasnt "broken"...was one of those things that someone decided that needed "to be fixed"...now is a useless ability that no one use...

+1 this is true for many Game mechanics/Class identity "fixes" in RoR. "Fixes" have removed something or added something that simplifies the game.

[Cyrylius]

Then order gets no cd increse, and destro gets rampage with mara aoe kd, if you wona get rampage you need to give order aoe kd and remove it from destro... as slayer main id trade rampage for aoe kd with 20 sec cd anyday... gona repeat this again if you hit tanks with dps class any dps class you are doing bad job... get to back line hit heals and cloth users and you will see how much aoe kd is beter than rampage...

Order also gets double cd reducer without sacrificing kotbs spot, and destro loses its one. And I think you get gtdc as a compensation for I'd, no? And that choppa skill that takes rampage's place in skill tree. The idea is that it should be balanced this way. But if you want AOE kd I'm fine as long as you give marauder a pounce. We can do some bartering.

[lumpi33]

Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

Why should one class have a 5pt ability that bypass all defensive skills of 24 ppl (guard dmg included) with one button press and the other - also DPS class - get a far far worse ability for 5 points that does far far far less (restore 100 ap LMAO).
Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

It's a 5 point ability and does only one thing. When you fire it you have a gcd and can do nothing in that time. It's pure utility also. It does no damage, can be dispelled and is pretty much useless on targets with low defense. Whether it is strong or not stands on another page but it does only one thing. GTDC gives up to 3x aoe damage, 3x interrupt, 3x pull and 6s increased movement speed with only 1 button press without having to wait for gcds. Make a topic about rampage and bring up arguments why it should be changed instead of shouting BUT RAMPAGE in every balance discussion.

[lumpi33]

And again:
Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

You are aware that Choppa pull range already got reduced? Afaik around that time they got the tiny speed boost as compensation.
Snare them from range and the speed buff won't help them in order to get into range.
As rdps you don't need this boost, especially on a static pull.
Both skills interrupt at pull, why don't you mention this?
1 target at a time on a channel is inferior to multiple at once on longer range, if we just compare pulls.

When you use gtdc primarily for damage under all circumstances, you should get kicked from group.
As a DoT class engi/magus deal DMG while they pull you, no reason for such a short ability to cause damage, while Choppa would deal almost zero damage during channel.
It is not that hard to grasp, seriously.

That it got reduced in the past is your argument for keeping it that way? The devs at Mythic were not the all known gods of MMORPGs that knew everything best. It was actually the opposite and they used to overtune classes that were added later.

What they were on live doesn't mean anything at all. I mean they recently nerfed AM/Shaman AP drains or the SM m1 snare that were that way for ages. What's the excuse for that? When things are not right, they need to be changed. No matter what.

How many magus/engi do you see using that pull and how many choppas do you see spamming gtdc? There you have the answer, which one is useful and which one not.

Engi/magus deal DMG while they pull? You mean that 200 dot ticks? Seriously? The choppa does A LOT more damage than that with gtdc. Engi/magus pull also doesn't pull close enough. People make a few steps and are out of the damage area again. The choppa pulls you right into the blob, with collision, knock downs and a lot of dps from all other people around the choppa.

Play one night on order and then one night on destro. You probably wont get pulled once on destro and at least 3 times on order from maras and choppas. With two good pulling classes on one side that's not surprising. That's the thing that annoys me the most. When there are punts and pulls and what else then you should experience them roughly in the same amount on both sides. That's totally not the case. And that's one the reason why it has to go or needs a big nerf. The other is the bugged state of that ability with pulling through objects and into objects or the camera turning. It's fun taking...

Not hard to grasp, right?

[Sinisterror]

Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

Why should one class have a 5pt ability that bypass all defensive skills of 24 ppl (guard dmg included) with one button press and the other - also DPS class - get a far far worse ability for 5 points that does far far far less (restore 100 ap LMAO).
Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

It's a 5 point ability and does only one thing. When you fire it you have a gcd and can do nothing in that time. It's pure utility also. It does no damage, can be dispelled and is pretty much useless on targets with low defense. Whether it is strong or not stands on another page but it does only one thing. GTDC gives up to 3x aoe damage, 3x interrupt, 3x pull and 6s increased movement speed with only 1 button press without having to wait for gcds. Make a topic about rampage and bring up arguments why it should be changed instead of shouting BUT RAMPAGE in every balance discussion.

It is just baffling to me how you rationalize Rampage. Do you have any clue how fast warbands melt when every skill 7 slayers use on 24 people that also goes through morale avoidance AND guard mechanic? Obvious reasons why Rampage should work like it did live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Zw4FUPacc Also reason why magus/engi doesnt use pull because it used to be FUN and EFFECTIVE like you can see in the video. Bring these Pulls back to engi/magus and same goes for WL Fetch/Pounce. Just because something was in Live its not instantly automatic it should be in RoR but saying "Just because it worked like that in live doesnt mean it shouldnt be changed in RoR, Live is Irrelevant" Is just plain wrong. Live and pvp mechanics in AoR is the reason this server exists,From AoR Lovers to AoR lovers. But RoR has steered in direction of simplifying the game. There(used to be) 24 classes no real mirrors and the more there is possible to do with gear,procs and specs is better. RoR has taken out things that serve purpose to no one(or very few and not in a good way) and only takes 1 of many AoR's way to do PvP/RvR away... Unique,Meaningful,Effective & FUN should be embraced not removed.

[esuna819]

[emiliorv]

Why should one class have a 14pt ability that does 4 things with one button press (movement speed, aoe damage, pull/gap closer, interrupt) and the other - also DPS class - get a similar ability for 14 points that does far less. Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

Why should one class have a 5pt ability that bypass all defensive skills of 24 ppl (guard dmg included) with one button press and the other - also DPS class - get a far far worse ability for 5 points that does far far far less (restore 100 ap LMAO).
Unless you can answer me that question your comment is just your opinion, nothing else.

GTDC gives up to 3x aoe damage, 3x interrupt, 3x pull and 6s increased movement speed with only 1 button press without having to wait for gcds.

Its a 6 secs channel (not 1 button press) can be interrupted pretty easy and totally useless vs tanks

[Rapzel]

What they were on live doesn't mean anything at all. I mean they recently nerfed AM/Shaman AP drains or the SM m1 snare that were that way for ages. What's the excuse for that? When things are not right, they need to be changed. No matter what.

Mechanic that could make small scale unfun, mainly one person that whined about it, but okay. The big issue here came from a previous nerf of "Stay Focused!" having it's AP regen removed.

How many magus/engi do you see using that pull and how many choppas do you see spamming gtdc? There you have the answer, which one is useful and which one not.

How many mSH do you see compared to WL?

Engi/magus deal DMG while they pull? You mean that 200 dot ticks? Seriously? The choppa does A LOT more damage than that with gtdc. Engi/magus pull also doesn't pull close enough.

https://imgur.com/ukj3bR0
Yellow
https://imgur.com/YX9ZniA
Red

That's full str, bloodlord weapon and fortress in offhand on dummies. 75% damage reduction from armor and you tell me it's good damage?

People make a few steps and are out of the damage area again. The choppa pulls you right into the blob, with collision, knock downs and a lot of dps from all other people around the choppa.

Okay? 40% slow and they just step out, while on choppa which doesn't slow it becomes more difficult? Ever thought about using the range advantage and placing the magnet/rift inside the melee blob so your blob can do the same?

Play one night on order and then one night on destro. You probably wont get pulled once on destro and at least 3 times on order from maras and choppas. With two good pulling classes on one side that's not surprising. That's the thing that annoys me the most. When there are punts and pulls and what else then you should experience them roughly in the same amount on both sides. That's totally not the case. And that's one the reason why it has to go or needs a big nerf. The other is the bugged state of that ability with pulling through objects and into objects or the camera turning. It's fun taking...

Get pulled much more by WL than I get pulled by Mara since it's quite easy to interrupt the mara pull as the animation + blue line is easy to see.

How often do you get pounced on by a mSH right now as Order, compared to how often WL pounces on destro?
Where's the shadow step/wings of heaven for destro that can be used to exploit terrain? Can we just accept that the game is asymmetric and that the 3rd faction (terrain) needs to be fixed instead of the daily nerf GtDC!1!1!11!

[Alubert]

1. Remove GTDC.
2. Remove CF.
3. Give BO CF.
2. Give choppa ID version.
3. Rework or remove Rampage.

And all will be happy. (Im a choppa player)

[Uberlix]

1. Remove GTDC.
2. Remove CF.
3. Give BO CF.
2. Give choppa ID version.
3. Rework or remove Rampage.

And all will be happy. (Im a choppa player)

Replace "Remove GTDC" with "Remove GTDC or rework GTDC" and this is /thread.

Also, pleease please keep up the tradition of calling it coppa instead of choppa, never fails to make me laugh.