[KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

[detrap]

snip

Pls do not reply to my posts. Everything you write is either far-fetched, theorycrafted or straight wrong.

Last time I checked both Knight/Chosen already can beat most non-healer classes 1v1 or 1v2.

This is all you. Properly geared Ch can do even 1v3, about kn you are delusional.

Just trying to help make good understanding of how the actual abilities can be used/countered.

Rarely had issues 1v1 against any melee/sorc/rsh.

[CptGeorges]

I wish to bring this discussion back to the original post. There are SO SO MANY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE BIG PICTURE OF HOW THIS AND THAT IS OP. I don't really care about that because it is a divisive and low resolution approach to the subject.

I want to talk SPECIFICALLY about Myrmidia's Fury - nobody uses it in any serious matter effectively, it is by far the worst channel a tank has. As noted before, you don't have to make it do more damage (although I'm sure people would love that but they cant always have what they want, even though 2h survivability got nerfed hard). You can make it add defensive or group oriented bonuses instead. As it stands right now it is an utter waste of mastery points and AP. Make it apply a group debuff or a single target debuff, to make it in line with the rest of the abilities in the conquest tree maybe. Hell, reduce the AP use maybe or lower the position of it in the mastery tree. Give it something, because it is not a viable ability.

[Alucard2010]

Incoming detrap post that myrm fury is completely viable in 3.....2..........1.....................

[don775]

I wish to bring this discussion back to the original post. There are SO SO MANY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE BIG PICTURE OF HOW THIS AND THAT IS OP. I don't really care about that because it is a divisive and low resolution approach to the subject.

I want to talk SPECIFICALLY about Myrmidia's Fury - nobody uses it in any serious matter effectively, it is by far the worst channel a tank has. As noted before, you don't have to make it do more damage (although I'm sure people would love that but they cant always have what they want, even though 2h survivability got nerfed hard). You can make it add defensive or group oriented bonuses instead. As it stands right now it is an utter waste of mastery points and AP. Make it apply a group debuff or a single target debuff, to make it in line with the rest of the abilities in the conquest tree maybe. Hell, reduce the AP use maybe or lower the position of it in the mastery tree. Give it something, because it is not a viable ability.

I went ahead and summarized my insight regarding optimal 1hs/gw for kotbs;

SC Solo - shield.
SC Premade - gw only with solid melee team.
RvR wb - gw offense(mostly aoe), shield defense(anything else)
PvE - varies, shield does overall better.

GW used to be reliable with parry once Kotbs could efficiently deal elemental damage to melee tanks, now its not worth engaging them at all.

For GW Kotbs I'll do Bellow Commands, Banish Darkness/Unstoppable Jaggernaut, Slice Through and Unwavering Faith/Emperor's Ward.

The first choice for SC and second for RvR.

Myrmydia's Fury is best working with Bellow Commands for -15 ACPs started with taunt and followed by Smashing Counter, works best with PTA and NOC/SS/TG and Weaponskill/Strenght. other than that its mostly for stealing kills.

[Drednes]

no fun for kobs will be had
a knight that cant do damage
to think that SM and BG cant compete with dps (like wow with warriors having diferent specs) but healers can do dps but heavy armor tanks cant? its a flaw i had with the game from the start,just on a concept level that tanks cant have dps specs

it will be 100% worse and no reason to play anymore after they return the (suposed) click the auras system in the chosen/knight rework.That requires no skill and adds no depts to the class
even more so cause people will just cheat it with addons like on live

[don775]

no fun for kobs will be had
a knight that cant do damage
to think that SM and BG cant compete with dps (like wow with warriors having diferent specs) but healers can do dps but heavy armor tanks cant? its a flaw i had with the game from the start,just on a concept level that tanks cant have dps specs

it will be 100% worse and no reason to play anymore after they return the (suposed) click the auras system in the chosen/knight rework.That requires no skill and adds no depts to the class
even more so cause people will just cheat it with addons like on live

I can confidently tell you that youll do decent damage with shield in the form of aoe and dot to all enemies, greater than what damage youll ever do with gw focusing on casters (imo the optimal build for gw atm)

I suggest you as a kotbs myself to invest mostly on basic abilities instead of specific skills such as Staggerin Impact to boost numerous abilities like Press The Attack and Crippling Slash(+Slice Through) or else get the extra point to Vigilance or Glory.

[Drednes]

no fun for kobs will be had
a knight that cant do damage
to think that SM and BG cant compete with dps (like wow with warriors having diferent specs) but healers can do dps but heavy armor tanks cant? its a flaw i had with the game from the start,just on a concept level that tanks cant have dps specs

it will be 100% worse and no reason to play anymore after they return the (suposed) click the auras system in the chosen/knight rework.That requires no skill and adds no depts to the class
even more so cause people will just cheat it with addons like on live

I can confidently tell you that youll do decent damage with shield in the form of aoe and dot to all enemies, greater than what damage youll ever do with gw focusing on casters (imo the optimal build for gw atm)

I suggest you as a kotbs myself to invest mostly on basic abilities instead of specific skills such as Staggerin Impact to boost numerous abilities like Press The Attack and Crippling Slash(+Slice Through) or else get the extra point to Vigilance or Glory.

The useless fluff damage that no good knight or enemy healers consider anything? with s&b you will not do damage to anything . Running around spreading blazing blade you are not doing anything and are not doing your job of guarding against sudden ST party burst or aoe burst against a good wb or even /5 randoms who assist 1 guy
"aoe and dot to all enemies" Sigmar forbid that you are using the aoe stagger to do only damage or at all if you are not in a coordinated warband/party,or forbid using the aoe aura unless specifically asked by leader,as said above fluff damage is nothing ticking for 70-100 is nothing a hot healed that by one tick,if it wasnt already cleansed

Not having the knockdown???? you better be playing 6v6 and your team WANTING you to not have it for whatever wrong reason or you are failing as a knight full stop. KNOCKDOWN IS MANDATORY ON EVER KNIGHT SPEC!!!
slice thrue is for the aoe slow! not the pathetic damage!!!! and your auras should ALWAYS be resist/str AP and Heal with tactic if you are the only knight in the party

[zulnam]

u want to deal dmg as kotbs, need to tone down their utility and survivability 1st.

BO would like to have a word with you.

BO can have all the words they want, no tank in the game comes close to the utility knight has, both in SnB and 2H.

And that's the issue. The class is not broken. This is a team game and knight, with either weapon, is a must have for any group.

The issue is it's boring. You have very few abilities, and when you take out situationals and the ones that hit like poo, you're basically down to 2 debuffs every 20 sec and MS spam.

So yes it does potato damage and is boring.
It also has 3 auras
And a group wide heal buff
And an aoe crit chance debuff
Along with an aoe wounds debuff
And an aoe defense debuff (i guess)

And that's supposed to be the "dps" knight, lol! You need a chosen AND a BG to counter all those buffs.

And you could get a channel attack that is worth a damn, it still won't change the underlying issue. The damage will still be low.

- no great weapon mastery tactic
- runefang, an offensice tactic (gives WS) is in utility tree
- 11-point tactic in offensive tree dispells detaunts (lol can u imagine?)
- sov sets are all over the place; offensive set doesn't give weapon skill; utility set does, what?
- Sunfury tactic broken (doesn't work) so can't go for dmg reflect build (last i checked, maybe it was fixed)

I don't have a horse in this race anymore; i stopped playing knight when they removed Mighty Soul (MIGHTY SSSSSOOOUUULLL). It is a utility hog and as long as it stays that way it won't get the attention it's dps spec needs. And as long as that stays that way, order will never have enough knights to be competitive; contrary to popular belief, people who play a SnB tank still want to have the option of going unga bunga 2H whenever they want.

[don775]

no fun for kobs will be had
a knight that cant do damage
to think that SM and BG cant compete with dps (like wow with warriors having diferent specs) but healers can do dps but heavy armor tanks cant? its a flaw i had with the game from the start,just on a concept level that tanks cant have dps specs

it will be 100% worse and no reason to play anymore after they return the (suposed) click the auras system in the chosen/knight rework.That requires no skill and adds no depts to the class
even more so cause people will just cheat it with addons like on live

I can confidently tell you that youll do decent damage with shield in the form of aoe and dot to all enemies, greater than what damage youll ever do with gw focusing on casters (imo the optimal build for gw atm)

I suggest you as a kotbs myself to invest mostly on basic abilities instead of specific skills such as Staggerin Impact to boost numerous abilities like Press The Attack and Crippling Slash(+Slice Through) or else get the extra point to Vigilance or Glory.

The useless fluff damage that no good knight or enemy healers consider anything? with s&b you will not do damage to anything . Running around spreading blazing blade you are not doing anything and are not doing your job of guarding against sudden ST party burst or aoe burst against a good wb or even /5 randoms who assist 1 guy
"aoe and dot to all enemies" Sigmar forbid that you are using the aoe stagger to do only damage or at all if you are not in a coordinated warband/party,or forbid using the aoe aura unless specifically asked by leader,as said above fluff damage is nothing ticking for 70-100 is nothing a hot healed that by one tick,if it wasnt already cleansed

Not having the knockdown???? you better be playing 6v6 and your team WANTING you to not have it for whatever wrong reason or you are failing as a knight full stop. KNOCKDOWN IS MANDATORY ON EVER KNIGHT SPEC!!!
slice thrue is for the aoe slow! not the pathetic damage!!!! and your auras should ALWAYS be resist/str AP and Heal with tactic if you are the only knight in the party

Sotbs, HF, Blazing along with OYG, AAA, GYR gives the best elemental damage combo but it doesnt work well for GW, but works much better with 1hs.

To state the obvious when you play a tank you either go for mainly defense that you sacrefice for utility/dps, so...

Playing GW sc I wont build elemental damage at all and probably wont go above Myrmidia Fury for the sake of the argument since the best abilities for GW are in Vigilance and Glory anyways, Vicious slash is ideal with gw btw you didnt mention it does nice damage to casters, along with debuff commands TG, NOC, SS, GYR, that are the best to pick vs casters and have some hidden mechanics with/out tactics.


To sum it again. you are correct. Kotbs were hurt badly since they used to be a dual career type classes like AM and SW. now they are not.

You either do-
Gw - against low physical defense casters/dps.
or just grab a shield and do whatever else, never use gw unless you are 100% offense in premade with a tank, if you dont have another tank it means that should have been you.

[don775]

u want to deal dmg as kotbs, need to tone down their utility and survivability 1st.

BO would like to have a word with you.

BO can have all the words they want, no tank in the game comes close to the utility knight has, both in SnB and 2H.

And that's the issue. The class is not broken. This is a team game and knight, with either weapon, is a must have for any group.

The issue is it's boring. You have very few abilities, and when you take out situationals and the ones that hit like poo, you're basically down to 2 debuffs every 20 sec and MS spam.

So yes it does potato damage and is boring.
It also has 3 auras
And a group wide heal buff
And an aoe crit chance debuff
Along with an aoe wounds debuff
And an aoe defense debuff (i guess)

And that's supposed to be the "dps" knight, lol! You need a chosen AND a BG to counter all those buffs.

And you could get a channel attack that is worth a damn, it still won't change the underlying issue. The damage will still be low.

- no great weapon mastery tactic
- runefang, an offensice tactic (gives WS) is in utility tree
- 11-point tactic in offensive tree dispells detaunts (lol can u imagine?)
- sov sets are all over the place; offensive set doesn't give weapon skill; utility set does, what?
- Sunfury tactic broken (doesn't work) so can't go for dmg reflect build (last i checked, maybe it was fixed)

I don't have a horse in this race anymore; i stopped playing knight when they removed Mighty Soul (MIGHTY SSSSSOOOUUULLL). It is a utility hog and as long as it stays that way it won't get the attention it's dps spec needs. And as long as that stays that way, order will never have enough knights to be competitive; contrary to popular belief, people who play a SnB tank still want to have the option of going unga bunga 2H whenever they want.

Well Kotbs aint boring at all, it is not an issue if that what we seek to achieve by playing video games, wont you agree?

Anyways Chosen is the only one to be compared for Kotbs and they are doing much better with GW, while BO does better with Shields than Kotbs cant beat them, so there is a conparison to be made to Chosen to the very least since we can match BO to SM for their parries but its fair to compare BO to IB and SM to BG.

No gw weapon tactic? - no offensive tactics either except Biting blade to reduce parry (meh) or Focused offense to .. reduce armor?

Runefang - sucks, it really sucks, not refreshing by itself, boosting toughtness and weapons skill which are not fitting kotbs outside PvE in this combination.

Conquest - sucks harder since you dont want 11 points in it anyways and you wont receive any detaunts you cant overcome with 3x dueling anybody, dont forget auto and setup debuffs. so its only worth as a passive for switching targets frequently for the Efficient Swings.

Plus all attacks must be physical which is a greater nerf than any.. now Chosen.. way better tactics and build options for tanks with better and more dynamic utility.

So atm its like-
GW
Chosen > Kotbs by far.
SnB
Chosen > Kotbs.

Problem.