Patch Notes 28/05/2021

[abezverkhiy]

You know this whole thing looks more like a dispute whether weed should be sold legally or illegally - noone questions consumption the question is in the legitimacy of the sales.

[Gyurza83]

I'm really happy for these people with a cool skill, who can finally play and not cry that they are offended by evil people with NB.

[anthiquery]

You are disabled then? or are you just another person deciding what is offensive without actually talking to disabled people. I play with disabled gamers in my friend group, and honestly this kind of thread is exactly the thing they hate. They arent things to use in a crusade, they are people with a lot more of an ability to adapt then a ton of you think.
[/quote]


I m really disabled , and this change really affect what i can do or not in this game , If you think that because your friends are acting in a certain way, that’s the only way to be or think, maybe it’s time to open your mind a little more and learn to tolerate the difference.
You are right on one point I don’t really like reporting this either.
But this change impacts the fact that I will be able to continue or not to play this game. There are different degrees of handicap in my case without this addon it is difficult for me to continue to play, this seems to be a sufficient reason for this time yes I report it

[anthiquery]

Regardless of whether you are for or against NB, what we have now is much worse then what we had before the NB patch. The only difference is now that is taken out of the general populations hand and has been pushed underground. Only those who have enough knowledge of how to get it to work or have a "friend" that shares it with them can use it. And that is the worse of both worlds. Even if you were against it, you still had the opportunity to be able to use it. Now that is not the case. I have waited awhile to post on this subject due to seeing how the Devs would handle it, and it seems like they are just going to push underground further. Which is just making the matter worse.

The first guy to post a fix on the forums was making a statement of how easily these "blocks" can be bypassed. Now that people have seen the devs stance on it, they won't be sharing it anymore. And who knows how many possible "fixes" there are to get NB working again. The devs could squash 1, and 5 more could pop up. How much more dev time and resources has to be spent before they see that it is almost impossible to block, without destroying a host of other things in the process. Both sides of this matter have brought up valid points, but what we have now is much worse then before this debate was brought up. My only hope is the devs see this and rectify it, because going on like this will have massive consequences.

It s the better case , probably there are some people who have the good enough knowledge to do theirs proper one and perhaps more effective than NB was .

[Alfa1986]

So let's summarize the pros and cons of NB.
Per:
1. NB helps people with disabilities. The most deadly and powerful argument for unblocking, at least before an alternative is proposed. I don’t think we need to speculate further on this topic, at the same time as one of the developers was one of the first to bring it up for discussion says that they take this topic in the most serious way, and beginning to take this into account in their decisions.
2. NB will still be used by a group of addon developers who will be able to bypass the block, and their friends. No one will know if they use it or not, since it will all be in the shadows.
3. NB helps to optimize the interface.
4. NB equalizes all classes in efficiency, since some classes, due to game mechanics, do not use NB at all, and have a much smaller number of useful abilities than other classes that need NB to be competitive.
5. Removing the blocking from the NB will relieve tension and the accumulation of anger within the community.
6. Removing the blocking from the NB will return to the game those players who left because of the last patch, probably not all of them, but the most.

Against:
1. NB is used to create an advantage for those who use it, in relation to those who do not. Well, to be honest, a strange argument, given the fact that it was in the public domain, and it could be used by anyone who wishes.
2. NB automates the gameplay, and makes the player something like a one-button bot. The second is a bizarre argument that is shattered by any straightforward honest look at how NB was actually used. Perhaps NB could be configured for something like that, but I think most of those who used it used it only for simple optimization of reducing the number of buttons, without setting any specific conditions.
3. NB increases the general level of the community's play, since those who play poorly with the help of NB could play better than their real opportunity. Another strange argument, I never thought that raising the general level of the community's game is bad, and should be regulated somehow.
4. Many of the players have asked for a long time that the NB would be blocked. I do not know who really benefits from the ban on the use of NB, but in reality, even if there are such people, I doubt that they say their real motives prompting them to do so.
5. NB brokes GCD, and with the help of its ability can be cast faster than designed. I donno.
6. NB was blocked in live, why should it be allowed here. In my mind, it was never banned until the last patch.

[xSAILORMOONx]

The most interesting thing is that the developers want constructive criticism of their solutions. And when they are given arguments on 50+ pages of the forum, they are silent. I am asking the developers to justify their decision to block NB. Specifically, point by point, and not just "we wanted to do this for a long time."

[Cultist]

I'm hesitant about posting this but here it goes:

You can make it work. I won't share any line though, since 1) it is now regarded as cheating and 2) In fact I freaked out and deleted it completely (no longer have the code) and hope gms/devs look into a way to detect it so they can block it again for good. I had to revamp a few functions and hint for our devs: check how windows (no actionbars) can be created on WAR API (a few addons have helpful lines in LUA/XML) and this implies you probably will have to figure out whether a window needs to be rootless or not. That's one possible way, I'm sure others found out better ways to make it work. I just hope you get rid of it as soon as possible. If this addon is not accepted, it shouldn't for anyone, even more so for "elite" players or guilds. And if you cannot block it completely, just allow it or at least give an ingame proper macro to be used as sequencer by everyone.

[tazdingo]

4th most downloaded addon doesn't prove those who downloaded it use it, or if they did or do, that they weren't in favor of it getting nuked.

what kinda daffy mental gymnastics is this

[Gyurza83]

I'm hesitant about posting this but here it goes:

You can make it work. I won't share any line though, since 1) it is now regarded as cheating and 2) In fact I freaked out and deleted it completely (no longer have the code) and hope gms/devs look into a way to detect it so they can block it again for good. I had to revamp a few functions and hint for our devs: check how windows (no actionbars) can be created on WAR API (a few addons have helpful lines in LUA/XML) and this implies you probably will have to figure out whether a window needs to be rootless or not. That's one possible way, I'm sure others found out better ways to make it work. I just hope you get rid of it as soon as possible. If this addon is not accepted, it shouldn't for anyone, even more so for "elite" players or guilds. And if you cannot block it completely, just allow it or at least give an ingame proper macro to be used as sequencer by everyone.

Hope Al Qaeda never learns this secret. Because now only the developers are on guard between this terrible misfortune of the NB and ordinary civilians of the server.

[mynban]

We are looking at alternate options to assist those with accessibility issues get back to playing RoR as they enjoy. I think you, and others, are missing the point. NB was used by a minority for accessibility, it was used enmass to gain an advantage which caused the addon to be required to remain competitive. Addons are there to support - they aren't there to enhance gameplay to the point that if you don't use them you're at a disadvantage.

This is exactly kind of point I have been trying to highlight. Enemy, Buffhead, Tether; they all fall exactly under the category you described. They all are required to remain competitive, a lot more than NB ever was.

Without enemy, WB focusing down a target is simply out of question
Without tether, guard (or guarded target) remaining in guard range in a clusterduck battle is simply impossible
Without buffhead, keeping track of who is guarded, who has immunity is simply impossible (vanilla UI displays nearly 20~ icons on targets in small icons, buffhead filters then based on the *conditionals* player chose)

NB did offer an advantage, still in a way available to everyone. Now it is pushed into custom version used by few in elite circles. And the problem you mentioned where some addons being required to stay competitive did not go anywhere, we still have to have at the very least those enemy,buffhead,tether mandatory to stay competitive (along side some others based on class).

The only thing this patch accomplished is making playing certain classes unbearable, because this game was never designed with good controls in mind.
How is it fair that some classes have keep track of 3 stack buffs/debuffs where other can apply once and be done.
How is fair that rdps can just keep side strafing and keep rotation even in lag, while mdps sees skill go on CD and then rolled back half a sec later where his rotation messes because 5yrd distance to his target didnt update on client without desync?
How is it fair some classes have 20~ skills to juggle, where others can get by with 5~

This game has many poor design issues from the core version, QoL tools like NB were helping overcome design flaws.

Also it is important to remember; a good chunk of playerbase is here for; warhammer fantasy world, nostalgia, friends. I wonder how many are here for poorly designed game mechanics that haven't neither aged well, nor haven't updated for better controls.