Patch Notes 28/05/2021

[Spellbound]

Ive been very hesitant to post on this but with all the noise I felt like I should throw my 2c in here.

Any automation (in where decision making is done for the player) is botting and should not be done. When I was on the team I attempted to block NB but my attempts ended up breaking all manner of things as well. That the team wants to get rid of NB is nothing new and was in fact in discussion even before I joined the team. With that said though I feel for anyone with disabilities that cant handle keybinds to the same extent and want a simple and "dumb" sequence.

I have sent a PM to Dalen with some pseudo code (probably butchering the phrase in what I mean) to add "dumb" sequence support into the serverside so that macros can be made for that purpose without any need for an addon however, as I have been out of the loop for some time I dont know how viable my suggestion would be (and it might also be improved opp-on regardless of code change ofc).

EDIT: When I say "dumb" in this context I mean just like sequence macros work in other MMOs with no conditionals

Botting would be a loop macro where you just AFK and it does the work for you.

At Mythic we dealt with a lot of botting or macro players. I’ve run Virtual Machine, Autohotkey, Hotkeynet and controlled 6-8 characters. Overall Mythic used the wording of what was allowed: “One key press, one action”

NB is “One key press, One action” and that’s directly from Mythic results of years of collaboration. It’s not a bot.

I was a GM with Phoenix DAOC before coming here and I banned many for botting. They AFK kill PvE for money and loot for hours. That’s botting.

What RoR can do is totally block any buffs/debuffs from showing on targets to other players just like DAOC. That’ll change Enemy, Buffhead, Nerfed Buttons and whatever else.

No more conditionals.

If that’s not a solution, well this client/game is based off Conditionals and QOL of sequencing being taking away is changing the game for many. Many addons use conditionals and it is what it is with Warhammer Online client.

[cairlaith]

Ive been very hesitant to post on this but with all the noise I felt like I should throw my 2c in here.

Any automation (in where decision making is done for the player) is botting and should not be done. When I was on the team I attempted to block NB but my attempts ended up breaking all manner of things as well. That the team wants to get rid of NB is nothing new and was in fact in discussion even before I joined the team. With that said though I feel for anyone with disabilities that cant handle keybinds to the same extent and want a simple and "dumb" sequence.

I have sent a PM to Dalen with some pseudo code (probably butchering the phrase in what I mean) to add "dumb" sequence support into the serverside so that macros can be made for that purpose without any need for an addon however, as I have been out of the loop for some time I dont know how viable my suggestion would be (and it might also be improved opp-on regardless of code change ofc).

EDIT: When I say "dumb" in this context I mean just like sequence macros work in other MMOs with no conditionals

I'm totally agree with you. If it is possible to make it without using any addons, it might be great. Rift Online and Lineage2 already use similar one

[Natherul]

Ive been very hesitant to post on this but with all the noise I felt like I should throw my 2c in here.

Any automation (in where decision making is done for the player) is botting and should not be done. When I was on the team I attempted to block NB but my attempts ended up breaking all manner of things as well. That the team wants to get rid of NB is nothing new and was in fact in discussion even before I joined the team. With that said though I feel for anyone with disabilities that cant handle keybinds to the same extent and want a simple and "dumb" sequence.

I have sent a PM to Dalen with some pseudo code (probably butchering the phrase in what I mean) to add "dumb" sequence support into the serverside so that macros can be made for that purpose without any need for an addon however, as I have been out of the loop for some time I dont know how viable my suggestion would be (and it might also be improved opp-on regardless of code change ofc).

EDIT: When I say "dumb" in this context I mean just like sequence macros work in other MMOs with no conditionals

Botting would be a loop macro where you just AFK and it does the work for you.

At Mythic we dealt with a lot of botting or macro players. I’ve run Virtual Machine, Autohotkey, Hotkeynet and controlled 6-8 characters. Overall Mythic used the wording of what was allowed: “One key press, one action”

NB is “One key press, One action” and that’s directly from Mythic results of years of collaboration. It’s not a bot.

I was a GM with Phoenix DAOC before coming here and I banned many for botting. They AFK kill PvE for money and loot for hours. That’s botting.

I disagree with that, also for example in wow during classic there was addons that automatically buffed you or removed curses whenever you moved (admittedly thats slightly more a bot then this but still did not do the full thing) it was allowed and flourished in vanilla but was removed because it was bot like by blizzard. Regardless this is a matter of difference in opinions. I will vehemently claim that anything that makes any decision for you is botting software however, Im not in any position to make the distinction for the server It was just my 2c on the matter

EDIT: my memory is a bit iffy but the decurse I think was then changed to a button to decurse anyone automatically (aka your distinction of not a bot) but was also blocked if memory serves.

[Spellbound]

Ive been very hesitant to post on this but with all the noise I felt like I should throw my 2c in here.

Any automation (in where decision making is done for the player) is botting and should not be done. When I was on the team I attempted to block NB but my attempts ended up breaking all manner of things as well. That the team wants to get rid of NB is nothing new and was in fact in discussion even before I joined the team. With that said though I feel for anyone with disabilities that cant handle keybinds to the same extent and want a simple and "dumb" sequence.

I have sent a PM to Dalen with some pseudo code (probably butchering the phrase in what I mean) to add "dumb" sequence support into the serverside so that macros can be made for that purpose without any need for an addon however, as I have been out of the loop for some time I dont know how viable my suggestion would be (and it might also be improved opp-on regardless of code change ofc).

EDIT: When I say "dumb" in this context I mean just like sequence macros work in other MMOs with no conditionals

Botting would be a loop macro where you just AFK and it does the work for you.

At Mythic we dealt with a lot of botting or macro players. I’ve run Virtual Machine, Autohotkey, Hotkeynet and controlled 6-8 characters. Overall Mythic used the wording of what was allowed: “One key press, one action”

NB is “One key press, One action” and that’s directly from Mythic results of years of collaboration. It’s not a bot.

I was a GM with Phoenix DAOC before coming here and I banned many for botting. They AFK kill PvE for money and loot for hours. That’s botting.

I disagree with that, also for example in wow during classic there was addons that automatically buffed you or removed curses whenever you moved (admittedly thats slightly more a bot then this but still did not do the full thing) it was allowed and flourished in vanilla but was removed because it was bot like by blizzard. Regardless this is a matter of difference in opinions. I will vehemently claim that anything that makes any decision for you is botting software however, Im not in any position to make the distinction for the server It was just my 2c on the matter

Your example is botting with zero key presses and just moving. This is 1 key press, 1 action as mythic allowed. Now if someone uses Autohotkey and just has it spamming a button over and over without a human finger touching the key, that’s botting. However hard to catch but also not how NB works as you gotta use 10+ other buttons to play.

If a player is moving and pressing buttons and other actions, he’s not botting. Was simple as that on Mythic and Phoenix. I did tests many times where I sent someone a PM and told them to respond ASAP as a GM. If they were performing actions and not responding, they were afk/auto botting. People are playing still and not botting.

[Natherul]

Botting would be a loop macro where you just AFK and it does the work for you.

At Mythic we dealt with a lot of botting or macro players. I’ve run Virtual Machine, Autohotkey, Hotkeynet and controlled 6-8 characters. Overall Mythic used the wording of what was allowed: “One key press, one action”

NB is “One key press, One action” and that’s directly from Mythic results of years of collaboration. It’s not a bot.

I was a GM with Phoenix DAOC before coming here and I banned many for botting. They AFK kill PvE for money and loot for hours. That’s botting.

I disagree with that, also for example in wow during classic there was addons that automatically buffed you or removed curses whenever you moved (admittedly thats slightly more a bot then this but still did not do the full thing) it was allowed and flourished in vanilla but was removed because it was bot like by blizzard. Regardless this is a matter of difference in opinions. I will vehemently claim that anything that makes any decision for you is botting software however, Im not in any position to make the distinction for the server It was just my 2c on the matter

Your example is botting with zero key presses and just moving. This is 1 key press, 1 action as mythic allowed. Now if someone uses Autohotkey and just has it spamming a button over and over without a human finger touching the key, that’s botting. However hard to catch but also not how NB works as you gotta use 10+ other buttons to play.

Yes, I even stated it was admittedly more botting. Though see my edit, not that it changes anything. As I said I just voiced my opinions and I do not share yours. No animosity from my side

[Spellbound]

I disagree with that, also for example in wow during classic there was addons that automatically buffed you or removed curses whenever you moved (admittedly thats slightly more a bot then this but still did not do the full thing) it was allowed and flourished in vanilla but was removed because it was bot like by blizzard. Regardless this is a matter of difference in opinions. I will vehemently claim that anything that makes any decision for you is botting software however, Im not in any position to make the distinction for the server It was just my 2c on the matter

Your example is botting with zero key presses and just moving. This is 1 key press, 1 action as mythic allowed. Now if someone uses Autohotkey and just has it spamming a button over and over without a human finger touching the key, that’s botting. However hard to catch but also not how NB works as you gotta use 10+ other buttons to play.

Yes, I even stated it was admittedly more botting. Though see my edit, not that it changes anything. As I said I just voiced my opinions and I do not share yours. No animosity from my side

I just did a edit myself while you replied but I’m just giving examples of how Mythic and Phoenix determined botting. This is a Mythic game too

[Natherul]

Your example is botting with zero key presses and just moving. This is 1 key press, 1 action as mythic allowed. Now if someone uses Autohotkey and just has it spamming a button over and over without a human finger touching the key, that’s botting. However hard to catch but also not how NB works as you gotta use 10+ other buttons to play.

Yes, I even stated it was admittedly more botting. Though see my edit, not that it changes anything. As I said I just voiced my opinions and I do not share yours. No animosity from my side

I just did a edit myself while you replied but I’m just giving examples of how Mythic and Phoenix determined botting. This is a Mythic game too

Oh yeah but its not mythic anymore The definition afaik of botting is automated gameplay. That leaves leeway of to what extent you automate.

[Spellbound]

Grimnir mentioned lacking constructive feedback so I’m laying out their internal details on what botting is and people are over exaggerating comparing to aimbot or actual bot that plays for you.

“One Keystroke, One Action”. All I gotta end it with. Everything else is just how Warhammer was made based off Conditionals that allowed other addons to work too.

[Spellbound]

Yes, I even stated it was admittedly more botting. Though see my edit, not that it changes anything. As I said I just voiced my opinions and I do not share yours. No animosity from my side

I just did a edit myself while you replied but I’m just giving examples of how Mythic and Phoenix determined botting. This is a Mythic game too

Oh yeah but its not mythic anymore The definition afaik of botting is automated gameplay. That leaves leeway of to what extent you automate.

It’s not but the RC balance team, how things were on live in terms of how classes worked, delves, etc., were trying to mimic how they did some of the things. I’ve been through this botting topic for years, it’s not new.

[zulnam]

“One Keystroke, One Action”. All I gotta end it with. Everything else is just how Warhammer was made based off Conditionals that allowed other addons to work too.

Not sure what to say if you don't see the problem with having one button for multiple abilities + conditionals, in a competitive game.
For example, an IB that memorises his keys and presses them in the correct order to receive autoattack speed + WS/crit + armor buff is the same as one that just presses the same button three times to get all that? Is that what you're saying? You're saying that the same skill goes into both situations?

We joke and scoff at people asking for better rewards in SCs for the losers or to help out pug warbands, telling them, in various ways, to git gud.
But when it comes to shortcut management and memory, it's all about "being inclusive" and finding excuses?