Patch Notes 20/05/2021

[Andack]

[

Spoiler:

Add a dead MSH on the side and we are good to go

[Jastojan]

40 pages, more then half of them say the BO and RSH fixes are to strong.
Maybe it's time to recognize that those RC suggestions were not that good and revert or slighten up the fix.

The moral chages make sense, if you so want, remembering that the team wanted to overhaul the morals anyway.

I still don't understand why you would remove a CDR from the destro tank and keep it on the order tank. Doesn't make sense what so ever, I understand that mirroring is not your goal but you should see yourself how bad that change is for destro warband composition now.

Also, I don't understand the reason in dropping this nerf/fix on to destro classes at a point were destro is clearly underpopulated, to the point were warbands don't even fill up properly.

To this date I still think the increase of the aoe cap was the biggest mistake, just be followed up by the removal of aoe heal debuff.
You would have had a much easier time balancing things out without this nonsense aoe. The zerg became worse by the way. The opposite of what you envisioned.
M2 bellow would not be on the discussion table with aoe healdebuff still in place. In general the lack of dps "pressure" on even city matches.
But what do I know, I am just leading 24/7.

I agree. Time showed me that 24 aoe cap wasn´t a good step (from my point of view). But there is no chance to revert or tweak it it seems. Too many changes were made due this 24 aoe cap I think.

[Charon]

I still don't understand why you would remove a CDR from the destro tank and keep it on the order tank. Doesn't make sense what so ever, I understand that mirroring is not your goal but you should see yourself how bad that change is for destro warband composition now.

Also, I don't understand the reason in dropping this nerf/fix on to destro classes at a point were destro is clearly underpopulated, to the point were warbands don't even fill up properly.

Ok.. my 5 cents here
snb BO issue
- was CDR removal from BO reasonable - yes. BO was overstacked like hell. Easiest tank to play and most power full in snb mode. Having it for last years in that form gave destro huge advantage and allow almost farming eng game content.
- Is BO useless now - Hell no. The char still have good tools to thrive and morale pomp stil is working - are you realy so crashed becouse lossing 30 sek. Go. start counting bellows not only m4 you will have it before order anyway.
- should BO be compensated to some extend (more what he got). Yes at least to decrease ppl discontent and drama.
Available options:
* THK should be again available in snb
* Big Bravlin again should debuff 40% speed
* Wez Biger should be improved at least to give dmg mitigation for 7-8 sek ( improvemnt of 13 pt ability vs improved 13 pt ability (ww) for sm
* maybe access to core st punt like redirect force
And that is all

Destro low activity in the game. Destro become lazy and victims of its own success
- Destro farmed cities for one year +. For huge chunk of ppl there is nothing to do in the game those days when their 4-5 alt is in full sov. So, many of them stopped playing or switched to order. Im playing currently with mates which disbanded their destro guild and switched becouse boredom.
- Appearance of op rsh pushed a lot of ppl to play it (30-40% of population) but hey ...goblin is/was op gank farmer but You cannot push zones or forts with them. In the end overperformance of this one tune created snowballing effect: more solo gankers - less ppl in wbs - harder blob fights - less and less ppl in wbs. Now if there is no FMJ or PNP or TUP (which typically fights where suits them better) you don't have force to do much in rvr outside maybe annoying pugers.
- 2.-end RSH effect. Order lost its ability to play alone in its typical puging way. For last moths it was impossible almost to play alone in rvr for lonely order soloer. . So Order blobed and started zerging. Even there are no many good order pug comanders - there are plenty of pug warbaand with autoband. Its the same effect like op wl couple of years ago created at destro. So when order started to use mass to get advantage and hide - destro split to endless number of 3-ios... 6 mans etc.
- Nerf to the Eng and WL (hard time for dps am) coused that there is much less of them at orde,r at least vs previous years. Order is now full of more capable rvr chars - BW/SL and to some extend SW. Destro in contrary is full of sh/we and shamies.
- Over dependency on BO. This tune was (because its over performance) back bone of every destro wb-s. Now its the time where ppl will need to figure out new meta and play style. It needs time
-
So dear Destro im expecting that you now will be able to prove that you have real realm pride (cojones) and you are not only bunch of x-realmers that can only use over performing classes to get easy win . After one year of being farmed order at least can sometimes prove that have this virtue. Now its your turn.

[Arsanist]

Regarding the changes to solo ranked where high MMR players can join lower tier games - I think this should be capped at 1 player per side or balanced in number.

[Jastojan]

I still don't understand why you would remove a CDR from the destro tank and keep it on the order tank. Doesn't make sense what so ever, I understand that mirroring is not your goal but you should see yourself how bad that change is for destro warband composition now.

Also, I don't understand the reason in dropping this nerf/fix on to destro classes at a point were destro is clearly underpopulated, to the point were warbands don't even fill up properly.

Ok.. my 5 cents here
snb BO issue
- was CDR removal from BO reasonable - yes. BO was overstacked like hell. Easiest tank to play and most power full in snb mode. Having it for last years in that form gave destro huge advantage and allow almost farming eng game content.
- Is BO useless now - Hell no. The char still have good tools to thrive and morale pomp stil is working - are you realy so crashed becouse lossing 30 sek. Go. start counting bellows not only m4 you will have it before order anyway.
- should BO be compensated to some extend (more what he got). Yes at least to decrease ppl discontent and drama.
Available options:
* THK should be again available in snb
* Big Bravlin again should debuff 40% speed
* Wez Biger should be improved at least to give dmg mitigation for 7-8 sek ( improvemnt of 13 pt ability vs improved 13 pt ability (ww) for sm
* maybe access to core st punt like redirect force
And that is all

Destro low activity in the game. Destro become lazy and victims of its own success
- Destro farmed cities for one year +. For huge chunk of ppl there is nothing to do in the game those days when their 4-5 alt is in full sov. So, many of them stopped playing or switched to order. Im playing currently with mates which disbanded their destro guild and switched becouse boredom.
- Appearance of op rsh pushed a lot of ppl to play it (30-40% of population) but hey ...goblin is/was op gank farmer but You cannot push zones or forts with them. In the end overperformance of this one tune created snowballing effect: more solo gankers - less ppl in wbs - harder blob fights - less and less ppl in wbs. Now if there is no FMJ or PNP or TUP (which typically fights where suits them better) you don't have force to do much in rvr outside maybe annoying pugers.
- 2.-end RSH effect. Order lost its ability to play alone in its typical puging way. For last moths it was impossible almost to play alone in rvr for lonely order soloer. . So Order blobed and started zerging. Even there is no good order pug comanders - there is plenty of pug warbaand with autoband. Its the same effect like op wl couple of years ago created at destro. So when order started to use mass to get advantage - destro split to endles numbers 3-ios... 6 mans etc.
- Nerf to the Eng and WL (hard time for dps am) coused that there is much less of them them at order at least vs previous years. Order is now full of more capable rvr chars - BW/SL and to some extend SW. Destro in contrary is full of sh/we and shamies.
- Over dependency on BO. This tune was (because its over performance) back bone of every destro wb-s. Now its the time where ppl will need to figure out new meta and play style. It needs time
-
So dear Destro im expecting that you now will be able to prove that you have real realm pride and you are not only bunch of x-realmers that can only use over performing classes to get easy win . After one year of being farmed order at least can sometimes prove that have this virtue. Now its your turn.

Not going to reply to all that "valuable" content, but will reply to your "motivating" notes -
"After one year of being farmed order at least can sometimes prove that have this virtue. Now its your turn."
Ok, I think you remeber times when there was a reward system for successful "pre-fort" zones defend (invader marks etc.). Do you remeber how the game looked like? t4 mid zones were dead (order just waited in eataine, KV or rekiland to def it), even when destro had advantage of numbers, destro was not able to push pre-fort zones when order decided to successfuly defend (it ended by stacking stacking 5 stars or so). Fort zones win ratio was like a nightmare for destro (there was a huge thread about fort statistics). The only reason why destro was pushing zones (t4 mid zones and t2t3 zones) was that order let them to do it because order decided so. So there always was a powerful /strong order, problem was in a) numbers, b) their strategy. Not because order had undeperforming classes. Nothing less, nothing more.

[TARDIONm]

Im play on my BG in 1450+ bracket. If im use comand(.ranked allowlowertiermatch 1) and play in low bracket im see this: if im win with LS ppl in low breacket +1 MMR, Loose with this ppl -3 MMR , perfect. Altarnative now : not use comand and wait ranked match 2-3+ or more hour. Perfect. Mb remove bracket system , how its work in patch after add ranked live event xd.

[marafado]

ask the ror staff in pm, for wat i know they have deep knowledge in english

[Glin]

Great job devs, don't listen to whinners, this patch is very good in term of objective balancing
Can't wait to see what chopa/slayers 2h will be, imho ranged could be even more balanced, (how come a single arrow can make 3k dmg and a huge and heavy axe will do 1k5 at most?)

Destro player here, but a honest one, seems rare nowadays

[Duukar]

I still don't understand why you would remove a CDR from the destro tank and keep it on the order tank. Doesn't make sense what so ever, I understand that mirroring is not your goal but you should see yourself how bad that change is for destro warband composition now.

Also, I don't understand the reason in dropping this nerf/fix on to destro classes at a point were destro is clearly underpopulated, to the point were warbands don't even fill up properly.

Ok.. my 5 cents here
snb BO issue
- was CDR removal from BO reasonable - yes. BO was overstacked like hell. Easiest tank to play and most power full in snb mode. Having it for last years in that form gave destro huge advantage and allow almost farming eng game content.
- Is BO useless now - Hell no. The char still have good tools to thrive and morale pomp stil is working - are you realy so crashed becouse lossing 30 sek. Go. start counting bellows not only m4 you will have it before order anyway.
- should BO be compensated to some extend (more what he got). Yes at least to decrease ppl discontent and drama.
Available options:
* THK should be again available in snb
* Big Bravlin again should debuff 40% speed
* Wez Biger should be improved at least to give dmg mitigation for 7-8 sek ( improvemnt of 13 pt ability vs improved 13 pt ability (ww) for sm
* maybe access to core st punt like redirect force
And that is all

Destro low activity in the game. Destro become lazy and victims of its own success
- Destro farmed cities for one year +. For huge chunk of ppl there is nothing to do in the game those days when their 4-5 alt is in full sov. So, many of them stopped playing or switched to order. Im playing currently with mates which disbanded their destro guild and switched becouse boredom.
- Appearance of op rsh pushed a lot of ppl to play it (30-40% of population) but hey ...goblin is/was op gank farmer but You cannot push zones or forts with them. In the end overperformance of this one tune created snowballing effect: more solo gankers - less ppl in wbs - harder blob fights - less and less ppl in wbs. Now if there is no FMJ or PNP or TUP (which typically fights where suits them better) you don't have force to do much in rvr outside maybe annoying pugers.
- 2.-end RSH effect. Order lost its ability to play alone in its typical puging way. For last moths it was impossible almost to play alone in rvr for lonely order soloer. . So Order blobed and started zerging. Even there are no many good order pug comanders - there are plenty of pug warbaand with autoband. Its the same effect like op wl couple of years ago created at destro. So when order started to use mass to get advantage and hide - destro split to endless number of 3-ios... 6 mans etc.
- Nerf to the Eng and WL (hard time for dps am) coused that there is much less of them at orde,r at least vs previous years. Order is now full of more capable rvr chars - BW/SL and to some extend SW. Destro in contrary is full of sh/we and shamies.
- Over dependency on BO. This tune was (because its over performance) back bone of every destro wb-s. Now its the time where ppl will need to figure out new meta and play style. It needs time
-
So dear Destro im expecting that you now will be able to prove that you have real realm pride (cojones) and you are not only bunch of x-realmers that can only use over performing classes to get easy win . After one year of being farmed order at least can sometimes prove that have this virtue. Now its your turn.

Im glad you agree that the nerfs to BO were over done and that they should be given something in return for losing CDR.. Blorks were never so plentiful that you didnt need to search for them for city and WB play.. Backbone of destro? No.

I agree with all the things you think Blork should be given to tune and balance after this patch. Ive said as much in previous posts over and over. Im glad we agree.

[mryay]

Spoiler:

as far as i know there is no mSH class. You playing a SH which is a range class with a melee tree. the intention of the mSH mastery was clearly said AOE for wb´s and citys. Last changes to the mSH bring it to a 100% capable melee outperforming Marauder and WE also WL. You act like SH was always and ever a melee kill machine. The melee path is a extension to the range gameplay and not a standalone class in the class.

if you want play melee do so. there are 3 melee classes + 3 tanks who can fine melee to

As far as I know neither AM nor Shammy are dps classes but they are better than many. What about SW ? is it meant to be a melee class then ? Becuase it outperforms most melee classes in my view. I suggest not allowing tank classes to go dps builds stemming from your strange perspective.. Your point of view is too narrow and all this nonsensense is becuse of people with your mindset.

what makes AM and shammy a good dps class? right the ability to do dmg and heal themself. nobody would ever play a dps shammy if they couldn't heal themself. and here we are again they still healer even if the play the dps spec. Otherwise mSH. There are SH running around never touching their bow ... as a range class. Do you know a SW running full melee ? i dont. would be nice to talk to him maybe if you call some names.
I´m not against hybrid builds. Never said something like this but even you should see the design issue if a range class dont have to touch its bow.

I do run most of the time in full melee aSW.

But any experienced aSW will tell you that it is not meant to be played only melee, the assault spec is designed to incorporate range skills. aSW and mSH are simply not comparable. mSH has more melee skills for the very reason it is technically designed to play only melee while in squig armor + take benefit of the pet synergy.
This is also the reason why I keep saying the removal of Broad Head Arrow from Assault spec was a bad idea and has created a design flaw in the aSW gameplay mechanic. Also one must not underestimate the burden of switching stance at the wrong moment when you are aSW spec. It cost a GCD, and the stance locks skills for 5s.

Also, single target Skirmish is definitely a thing. However, QS SH is more efficient and faster at killing things. And it is normal since the QS tree is made for single target + parallel pet damage + BS skills are available without stance change/stance lock like the range execute "finish them off" is accessible. The SW's equivalent "Fell the Weak" is not.

So even though they're both rangers, the only comparable tree is SW's Scout and rSH BS. This is useless by the way, a class is defined by a spec + renown point distribution.