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mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

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Bobbiom
Posts: 219

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#51 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:09 pm

emiliorv wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:24 pmQuestion: its balanced that 1 dps have access to 33% uptime undefendable dmg??
Short answer is yes.

In 6v6 double slayer setup gets defeated by Teinhala's group (can be found on YT), which have access to 2 shatter enchantment (BG and dps DoK) on a 5s CD.
Slayers buff called rampage is an enchantment with 30s CD.
By tracking Rampage on buffhead (addon) you know when it's time to start shattering enchantments buff on the slayer.
Which is easy since in a double slayer setup its usually kotbs, IB, RP, WP and all their buffs are blessings afaik.
So the only one with enchantment buffs are the slayers themselfs, unless they use an AM healer. They could potentially use self buffs to dig the rampage buff deep inside ( the rule for removing buffs and debuffs is ''first in, first out'' ) but those buffs are on 60s cooldowns.
Point is that it have a counter.

As for WB v WB. I mean Bellow and challenge pretty much does the job. You can put damage pressure on the slayer to force them to drop their rage.
Proper singeltarget punts work aswell, maybe not that viable in wb v wb but it's there if you want to temporary remove pressure.
Notable is that marauder can kinda face-tank that damage thanks to the monstrosity proc.

Have to be mentioned aswell that Choppas is a good class, 25% crit damage tactic, 20s 35% increased autoattack speed for the party. Chop fasta! that negates slayers shatter limbs.

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Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#52 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:12 pm

Bobbiom wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:09 pm
emiliorv wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:24 pmQuestion: its balanced that 1 dps have access to 33% uptime undefendable dmg??
Short answer is yes.

In 6v6 double slayer setup gets defeated by Teinhala's group (can be found on YT), which have access to 2 shatter enchantment (BG and dps DoK) on a 5s CD.
Slayers buff called rampage is an enchantment with 30s CD.
By tracking Rampage on buffhead (addon) you know when it's time to start shattering enchantments buff on the slayer.
Which is easy since in a double slayer setup its usually kotbs, IB, RP, WP and all their buffs are blessings afaik.
So the only one with enchantment buffs are the slayers themselfs, unless they use an AM healer. They could potentially use self buffs to dig the rampage buff deep inside ( the rule for removing buffs and debuffs is ''first in, first out'' ) but those buffs are on 60s cooldowns.
Point is that it have a counter.

As for WB v WB. I mean Bellow and challenge pretty much does the job. You can put damage pressure on the slayer to force them to drop their rage.
Proper singeltarget punts work aswell, maybe not that viable in wb v wb but it's there if you want to temporary remove pressure.
Notable is that marauder can kinda face-tank that damage thanks to the monstrosity proc.

Have to be mentioned aswell that Choppas is a good class, 25% crit damage tactic, 20s 35% increased autoattack speed for the party. Chop fasta! that negates slayers shatter limbs.
Marauder wb laughs at slayers with armor pen ignore+aoe kd. For choppa/msh slayers are very hard to fight against

emiliorv
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Posts: 1295

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#53 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:48 pm

Bobbiom wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:09 pm
emiliorv wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:24 pmQuestion: its balanced that 1 dps have access to 33% uptime undefendable dmg??

Point is that it have a counter.
Sure, isnt there any counter for morale pump?

puzzolamistica
Suspended
Posts: 49

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#54 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:25 pm

emiliorv wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:58 pm
puzzolamistica wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:02 pm
emiliorv wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:38 pm

I was expecting some maths but: "a destro whit morlae pump get almost 5 time this ammount, is close to 90 per second" => where are the maths there?

Please remove the "mathematically" from the tittle (or show any real maths)..

Destro must be doing a nice job in RVR/SCs/Cities looking at the numbers of this crying posts...
morale pump from destro is 200 every 3 sec so 200%3 is 66.666667+20 is 86,66667.
Hahaha from where you pulled that numbers??
if u are not able to read tactics from your own faction is your brain problem, not mine,
learn to read then u could try to learn how to do math and then maybe write :D

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space44
Posts: 480

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#55 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:29 pm

wargrimnir wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:37 pm How many variations of this thread could there be?
damn i was just about to say lol
Chosen: Roten Plaguelord rr86 | Knight of the Blazing Sun: Lyntyz Jesterknight rr63

I'm not a clown, I'm the whole circus.

puzzolamistica
Suspended
Posts: 49

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#56 » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:32 pm

Btw i obviusly speaking about 2 organized wb whit discord and coordination.
keep talking about pugs fight is just pointless and is not the real problem.
i always play whit a 12/24 man premade whit discord, and yes we can win against some decent premade, and also losing against destro premade that they are faar better than us.
skill still matter, order can win against destro for sure but still way harder to do it because tools are superior on destro side.
summarizing a destros preamde whit no hands could be able to take some wins against decent order premade, wile if u player order u need to do way less mistake to be able to win.
Slayers ball has a counter. m4/2-aoe and st interrupts+ spread tactic.
4bo+4mara+ other 4 dps morale drop+zelot m4 whit aoe heal debuff pretty much dosent has one.
Yes u can kill the zealot that use m4 before he has it, yes u can spread but the first time 6 or more peoples get picked from this morale bomb combo your wb is pretty much gone.
Then we have the problem about st party.
If u play destro u can put in this party pretty much any dps wile if u play order what u have? wh, slayer, maybe a sw and a wl that should be a god because u need to play whit a pet alive arround an aoe blob.

havartii
Posts: 423

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#57 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:14 am

space44 wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:29 pm
wargrimnir wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:37 pm How many variations of this thread could there be?
damn i was just about to say lol
They will repeat their mantra till end days. I think they believe if they post enough times they will get nerfs.
Order: 70 AM / 76 RP/ 72 Knight/ 58 WH
Destro: 82 Sham / 79 Zealot/ 70 DoK /70 Magus /68 Mara
Many alts on both sides now ruined by new currency change

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#58 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:14 am

emiliorv wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:38 pm
I was expecting some maths but: "a destro whit morlae pump get almost 5 time this ammount, is close to 90 per second" => where are the maths there?

Please remove the "mathematically" from the tittle (or show any real maths)..

Destro must be doing a nice job in RVR/SCs/Cities looking at the numbers of this crying posts...
base is 20s

Chosen is +200/3s on block (66s)

Shaman morale pump is 150 at 0 seconds, 300 at 0-5s, 450 at 10-15, faster with CD reducer

I don't get what's so hard

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#59 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:18 am

emiliorv wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:24 pm
Totally this => rotating DBs is a perma -50% dps on enemy blob...PERMA-50% on enemy dps blob is better than -75% inc dmg reduction 33% uptime

Question: its balanced that 1 dps have access to 33% uptime undefendable dmg?? 33% of time destro tanks are nothing to 1 order dps...maybe that 33% uptime M4 is to deal with it...
lmao does Rampage drop Destro tank HP pools to 0? Most of the time you're not attacking from the front anyway. Rampage is decent but it's not nearly as good as you're saying it is.

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

Post#60 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:22 am

Aurandilaz wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:46 pm another city as the underdog, 3 gold bags <3

Image
(WL+SM deserve spanking for jumping+getting pulled into Destro spawn at end of s2 and giving enemy 2 kills)

I can dig up more screenshots if you keep loving the math

Does this mean Destro has balance issues? Should we nerf Slayers?
So you're saying your record of 1 win tells all, but months of records of all city performance says nothing?

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