Defensive tanks

[detrap]

I wonder if you have faced a stack of slayers (lets say 4) in a organized setup, im glad that mostly order doesnt play organized and also slayers are ones of the least played mdps...if i have have to fight against them frecuently will be a pain in the ass.

Just strip those rampage enchantments with waagh and chop fasta buffs and have a shaman and dok aoe cleanse the ID, yes its powerful having 4 good slayers in a warband but its only one of a few order's hard counters against destro tanks.

dok and shaman have a GRP cleanse (the shaman one is only 50ft range) there is no "aoe cleanse" in game. (so you need 1dok+1shaman for each grp)

Since stacking slayers is "only one of few order's hard counters against destro tanks" its ok to say that "destro tanks self-pump advantage is only one of few destro hard counters against order slayers".

Right now both counter each other...so whats the problem??

shamans can aoe cleanse the blob which is where all the ids are.

I've pointed out the counters to rampage. Morale pumping to m3 drop or turtling to m4 is another topic/issue that needs addressing.

[emiliorv]

Just strip those rampage enchantments with waagh and chop fasta buffs and have a shaman and dok aoe cleanse the ID, yes its powerful having 4 good slayers in a warband but its only one of a few order's hard counters against destro tanks.

dok and shaman have a GRP cleanse (the shaman one is only 50ft range) there is no "aoe cleanse" in game. (so you need 1dok+1shaman for each grp)

Since stacking slayers is "only one of few order's hard counters against destro tanks" its ok to say that "destro tanks self-pump advantage is only one of few destro hard counters against order slayers".

Right now both counter each other...so whats the problem??

shamans can aoe cleanse the blob which is where all the ids are.

Yor need to review your "facts" => shamans have a tactic to make cleanse work in all GROUPMATES (50ft near target), same as AM...

[detrap]

dok and shaman have a GRP cleanse (the shaman one is only 50ft range) there is no "aoe cleanse" in game. (so you need 1dok+1shaman for each grp)

Since stacking slayers is "only one of few order's hard counters against destro tanks" its ok to say that "destro tanks self-pump advantage is only one of few destro hard counters against order slayers".

Right now both counter each other...so whats the problem??

shamans can aoe cleanse the blob which is where all the ids are.

Yor need to review your "facts" => shamans have a tactic to make cleanse work in all GROUPMATES (50ft near target), same as AM...

Yes I was referring to the 4 group mates in the blob. So a dok and/or shaman in each party and ID spam isn't as bad

[CountTalabecland]

The question to ask with IBs is really whether the optimal Warband build really affords any of the extra tanky abilities?

Lets assume a 70+ IB w/o the extra 2 points from full Sov.

RoR.builders - Ironbreaker

If you bring Ancestor's Fury, Oathbound, Runic Shield, Punishing Knock, Earthshatter, and Told Ya So, then you cannot afford GnM or Shield Mastery and you have 1 tactic slot open assuming that you consider Toughness tactic to be mandatory.

You could use that tactic for Armor (Mind that you have pots and self-buff), the other tanky one you could use is Seasoned veteran.

The problem is that quite a few of these are "selfish" choices meaning that Ancestor's Fury, Runic Shield, earthshatter, and PK are all meta because they actually benefit the group's offense/damage mitigation in achieving kills.

TLDR: You can build a very tank tank IB that will be the last thing to die for sure but at what cost? My issue is that Borc, Chosen/Knight, and BG all bring the tanky stuff in combination with benefits to the grp more easily than the tradeoff IB is forced to make.

Edit: Come to think of it, given IB's lack of block buffs, the nerf to parrying guard damage probably hit them the hardest since high parry was the easiest thing to stack so really IB is probably over represented in these answers.

[Evilest]

It's not a well known fact that chosens are actually ginger, and that the lack of tankiness compared to other classes is balanced with the snb tank puts out...

[Aethilmar]

Well considering SM is by far considered the easiest tank to kill any chance of some of my or others suggestions viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43428 for how to make their defensive tactics more useful being adopted (shameless plug incoming)?

[detrap]

Well considering SM is by far considered the easiest tank to kill any chance of some of my or others suggestions viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43428 for how to make their defensive tactics more useful being adopted (shameless plug incoming)?

They can be the hardest 2h tank to kill, and they can have 60% block high parry and 95% disrupt, they clearly aren't the easiest tank to kill. With crushing advance up, you rotate with the 700 hp bubble > sudden shift > htl and you also have vauls buffer another 500+ hp shield proccing up to 3 times in that 10 second duration before your stance resets. People probably build them wrong, 99.9% of 2H are of course not defensively built, but can have parry up to 100%, disrupt above 90% and dodge more than 70%.

[lalasoup]

Well considering SM is by far considered the easiest tank to kill any chance of some of my or others suggestions viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43428 for how to make their defensive tactics more useful being adopted (shameless plug incoming)?

They can be the hardest 2h tank to kill, and they can have 60% block high parry and 95% disrupt, they clearly aren't the easiest tank to kill. With crushing advance up, you rotate with the 700 hp bubble > sudden shift > htl and you also have vauls buffer another 500+ hp shield proccing up to 3 times in that 10 second duration before your stance resets. People probably build them wrong, 99.9% of 2H are of course not defensively built, but can have parry up to 100%, disrupt above 90% and dodge more than 70%.

The bubbles get deleted super fast in Orvr WBs. Without the bubbles, their defense is like paper. I feel super jealous at times watching Kotbs and IB’s tank like super heroes.

[Mordd]

Well considering SM is by far considered the easiest tank to kill any chance of some of my or others suggestions viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43428 for how to make their defensive tactics more useful being adopted (shameless plug incoming)?

They can be the hardest 2h tank to kill, and they can have 60% block high parry and 95% disrupt, they clearly aren't the easiest tank to kill. With crushing advance up, you rotate with the 700 hp bubble > sudden shift > htl and you also have vauls buffer another 500+ hp shield proccing up to 3 times in that 10 second duration before your stance resets. People probably build them wrong, 99.9% of 2H are of course not defensively built, but can have parry up to 100%, disrupt above 90% and dodge more than 70%.

I wish i could get 60% block 100% parry and 95% disrupt. lol no idea what butt you pulled that out of.

[detrap]

Well considering SM is by far considered the easiest tank to kill any chance of some of my or others suggestions viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43428 for how to make their defensive tactics more useful being adopted (shameless plug incoming)?

They can be the hardest 2h tank to kill, and they can have 60% block high parry and 95% disrupt, they clearly aren't the easiest tank to kill. With crushing advance up, you rotate with the 700 hp bubble > sudden shift > htl and you also have vauls buffer another 500+ hp shield proccing up to 3 times in that 10 second duration before your stance resets. People probably build them wrong, 99.9% of 2H are of course not defensively built, but can have parry up to 100%, disrupt above 90% and dodge more than 70%.

I wish i could get 60% block 100% parry and 95% disrupt. lol no idea what butt you pulled that out of.

Sov bonus and block proc, crushing advance, perfect defenses, sentinel jewellary, calming winds can get your disrupt above 90%

Above 100% parry with 2h is also doable, I didn't say you could have both all at once.