Choppa/Slayer, risk vs reward needs to be fixed

[Mergrim]

Sorry but no. It is not hard to compare which one is more squishy. Ask yoursef who would you target first? The answer is pretty clear: BW/Sorc first, because they die so easily.
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Rampage is good, but at reasonable cost.
On the other hand, to bring more fuel to the fire, there is a famous choppa pull, "broken" ability with the potential to disrupt or break the enemy play. Undefendable. Repeatable. Random.

If you've never played against it, you do not know, what shiit it actually is. Because of lags or whatever, that pull can trigger from far more distance than described/designed and it could (and it will) pull any nearby oponent right into the melee death ball which is the meta game of Destruction.
Even for tanks it's a hard task to survive inside the critical melee AOE blob. Try it. Taste it. Then talk again.

GTDC, 99% choppa on this server will be happy if we trade this skill for ID mirror from slayer.
Meta now is not choppa/slayer on city/huge rvr fight. Meta melle now is mara/wl.
Idk how you play bw but you should always run in blob with melle class slayer/wl so there is no big deal if you get pull inside place where you should be:D

[Jezz08]

i think the main problem with choppa atm is not dying due to having 1700-2k armor in full rage( the problem with both slayer/choppa is that 9 times out of 10 your tank is going die at the same time as a choppa/slayer ) ( also the fact that due to armor debuffs being so high you can drop a choppa down to 0-300 armor when he is full rage ), its the fact that slayer has a better ST/AOE ability, in every city iv been in i see slayer do about 200k-500k more then the top choppa ( even when losing they can still match the same dmg as a choppa ).

ID is very good it gives both ST dmg and AOE dmg without needing to be channeled and here lies the problem for choppa's over slayers in citys/wb's/6mans u want to put out good aoe dmg 1 taunt stops ( kotbs and WL's in city can stop u very easy )u with bring it on or get to the choppa, slayers on the other hand can mask ID and keep it up.

Yes Rampage is good but to be fair in small fights you can counter it with choppa ( chop fasta + spam shatter ) but in wb play it shines because of how many hots/buffs the slayer will have making it very hard to counter.

[Bowldancer]

Sorry but no. It is not hard to compare which one is more squishy. Ask yoursef who would you target first? The answer is pretty clear: BW/Sorc first, because they die so easily.

Why do we even play this game ? Me - no you.
Slayer/Choppa in red are objectively the squishiest thing in the game. There is no discussion. But we can manage that and reset (unless you run THAT suicidal tactic) or get knocked down in red.

Even for tanks it's a hard task to survive inside the critical melee AOE blob. Try it. Taste it. Then talk again.

Depends on the tank - but I am not scared of a melee train. They tickle (Except for Witchelfs in the back). It is mostly Sorcs that I am scared about. Especially on my IB. Less so on my Knight.

Back to the topic:
Risk vs reward needs only to be fixed for the 2H builds. That's about it.

[Whyumadbro]

I would not say that the slayer in red is more squishy then a bw. I play both and i can say that the bw feels way more squishier, just look at the ability to detaunt a aoe detaunt vs a single target detaunt. I think slayer does not need a rework at all, just the 2h tree, both classes are very nice to play and balanced

[wachlarz]

the topics says: Why bw/sorc have +crit damage and crit % with almost zero penalty ?
What?
The Sorcerer and the BW pays the highest price in the game for their good dps.

Yes U need a 1 hot from a healer. And Sorc/ BW have more toughnes. Dont lose armor/ reisists. So Bw a old grampa is harder too kill that a BIG Angry Ork

Bw/Sorc is harder to kill that a BIG Angry Ork? Really?
Perhaps you do not know, that that self damage is usually -750 unmitigated hp and another -50 hp from self dps boost.
Perhaps you do not know, what armor these casters really have.
Perhaps you do not know, what limited defensive abilities they have.
Or there must be a strong weed you smoke, mate

So have much armor have at max mechanic BW/Sorc ? How much toughnes have Bw/Sorc ? How much resist have Bw/Sorc at max mechanic ? Rly 50 dmg wow !!! less that 1% of averange hp. Next if tank guard bw/sorc and enraged choppa/śl from what class will have more guard dmg ?

[M0rw47h]

Sorc has exacly as much armor, as Choppa in red... except she can't AoE detaunt to reduce incoming dmg by 50% from all people around and also drop red status at same time...

[Mergrim]

Sorc has exacly as much armor, as Choppa in red... except she can't AoE detaunt to reduce incoming dmg by 50% from all people around and also drop red status at same time...

Nope, choppa have less armor due rage cut also armor potion by /2. And if you want compare to slayer dmg you need to play with Wot Rules tactic, so no rage remove at all.

[Bowldancer]

Sorc has exacly as much armor, as Choppa in red... except she can't AoE detaunt to reduce incoming dmg by 50% from all people around and also drop red status at same time...

You have double the resists tho.
And a Choppa in red can't detaunt the ranged dps for 15 seconds, nor does he have a root or a disarm.
Slayer has no root or ranged knockdown either.

[M0rw47h]

Sorc has exacly as much armor, as Choppa in red... except she can't AoE detaunt to reduce incoming dmg by 50% from all people around and also drop red status at same time...

Nope, choppa have less armor due rage cut also armor potion by /2. And if you want compare to slayer dmg you need to play with Wot Rules tactic, so no rage remove at all.

Ok, you got me here with potion. Now tell me, how big is difference between % mitigation vs BiS geared slayer train?

Spoiler:

Assuming Choppa would use full Sov (but he won't due to stat min maxing) he would have 3500 armor with armor pot, thats 1750 in red. Now we assume he gets damaged by slayers who got ~700 WS and ~10% armor penetration. Choppa will negate ~16% damage with his armor. Sorc will have 2020 armor with potion (again assuming full Sov for easy math) and she will mitigate ~18% damage. So, here Sorc looks more tanky, but she can only detaunt only one attacker (and detaunt mitigates way more damage here, as it would be 50% per slayer vs extra ~2% from armor) and she can't use M1 to save herself, she can't use Shrug it Off + charge/flee to reposition herself while being focused. And thats assuming Choppa actualy uses Wot Rules and can't clear his red. So, who is harder to kill in the end?

[Sofong]

amazes me ppl have no idea what slayers capable of doing, they need to be toned down abit if they need anything.