SM Changes

[normanis]

Destro advantage??? Sm literally gets 50% parry and dodge disrupt baseline channel. I would hardly call 15 seconds of 25% parry (on hit-defendable) an advantage over all the **** a sm has.

u mean wall of the darting steel? its need 2h . while snb chosen can have same tactic + ability. and noone whant see 2h sm in wb or u are cursed to be c-hero.

This guy is talking about thc and ED so I can only assume 2h. Maybe for snb tho I can see the need.

perfect defenses (same as bo) calming winds same as bg only very low in tree. its good for snb as vauls buffer offc u can tham on 2h build if has some free tactic space. byt its make snb sm like bubble tank where he take damage on his absorbshields. byt +50% parry/dodge/distr is wods offc no ather class in 2h has such stuff.
bg- moved down parry tactic 30% + best tougness buff ingame +channel block ( + banish wekness best m1)
black orc - he have channel block + parry/block on plan
chosen - tactic on block gives raw 25parry +ability 25% parry ( + best ingame m2 300% incoming heals basicly healer heal u full in sec good for 2h) not talkin about flawless armor or gain morale on block ( its both to gather 2h and snb)
byt they are my thoughts

[Likeaboss]

Ether Dance on 9pt in Khaine tree like Bo...

[ashton007]

Ether Dance on 9pt in Khaine tree like Bo...

+1

[Oglaf]

( + best ingame m2 300% incoming heals basicly healer heal u full in sec good for 2h)

The problem is that you're competing with D. Bellow, an even better M2.

[SkPrime]

SM is fine. Stop crying :S

[Wam]

I would at least like SM to work a little more like BO. Not needing a target to trigger WW would be nice.

Sm feels pretty much like a broke BO gameplay, the least wanted tank to play.
But it's just my tiny little sidenote opinion. I got 5 other tanks to play ;D

THIS!
I feel this is a major problem with SMs, we are honestly only brought for the cooldown reduction.
But the skill is so clunky and unreliable to use, requiring perfect stance, a target, and a hit that is not blocked/parried.
This leads to a lot of frustration, unable to deliver in a reliable way for warband/party members, and honestly draining the fun aspect of playing SM.
If you want to "fix" order frontlines, then look to improve the situation and "fun" aspects for order tanks.
And I believe fixing WW to be less frustrating is one way to do it.

I agree with you to some extent ... the only issue is the ripple effect, will it make BW/SL Overkill ... will it kick IB from a competing spot (since it became battery boy, back into third spot and just token one needed )

If it means ID and other things need to be nerfed... will lead to other issues and balance ripple effects

But in essence i do agree SM should be made less clunky, and it needs to be done with delicate scalpel and not sledgehammer (due to ripple effects) it will also make MSH bad gas (the watered down version) even more of a joke...

It should cost a tactic spot, change the silence and need for melee target which is likely to parry... (maybe if AP was fixed on kotbs healing aura too at same time might help restore some love and numbers to order tanks just like when IB became battery boy) if it happens just need to keep a watchful eye on it and ID synergy as it might be too much (on top of rampage) and proc dmg from bw...

Its a quality of life fix which help order realm quite alot, SM/WL/AM/ will become alot more useful, the main issue will be if it boosts over achievers BW/SL too much, and also might make SW problematic too (see old mara morale drain nerf)

[Earthcake]

You are right, it would push many order careers up. Like it does to destro careers but everybody keep comparing careers one to one, never taking this into account.
So i guess it's not a problem after all ?

[balvor877]

I'd focus on the FUN-factor when working on the SM class. At the moment I dont see a point in playing SM. It doesn't bring much to the table for the group and has not really anything where it shines.

There needs to be something to make it fun again. Something like dual whield, or throw weapon, or 2h whirl wind lol. Something unique and fun that makes you wanna play it. All the other classes have such great tools, the SM feels boring compared to them.

When you think about SM, why would you wanna play one? What comes to your mind beside lore? Nothing? Magic damage? kind of weak? yeah...

[Wam]

You are right, it would push many order careers up. Like it does to destro careers but everybody keep comparing careers one to one, never taking this into account.
So i guess it's not a problem after all ?

pushing up SM/AM is NP, WL also probably fine

the Issue is pushing the top dogs even higher on their pedestals looking down on the rest from both realms (BW/SL... and also RSW would recreate issue in the morale drain department something that was stripped back massively on destro) this is what i mean when talking about ripple effect and not changing things blindly (or without any foresight to see potential issues)

Because order have these top dogs for raw damage it makes balancing their faction pretty complex, especially when the non top dogs are usually the ones which are nerfed... its a juggling act and with all the changes over the years, BW/SL still prop up order...

Destro careers pushed up... well sorc lost IW spam for it so thats a big loss
Magus is fluff dmg and doesnt need
RSH is ST doesnt need
Choppa doesnt have a skill like ID... and spams lotsa choppin and has its own CDR so doesnt really gain
Mara gains a little but is mostly demo spam noob
welf is ST

the main gainer is MSH and shammy, big bouncing and fodg... MSH is moderate damage dealer despite being supported, and shaman can put out alot of healers in the right circumstances but is a hard class to play in comparision to dok/zealot...

the other main gainer is slight counter to shatter limbs watered down version

If IW machine gun was back in the game, you would be pissed and destro would do better in forts... IW machine gun with ons/sov sorcs and 24 target cap would be so glorious and so much cries for nerf... its why this was traded off.

back on topic SM is clunky and because of this my least favourite tank, its main purpose is WW / support bot in large scale, if rotation for WW was refined without breaking game balance it would be interesting... how you do it without pushing SL/BW further into the red zone (and rsw morale drain) i dont know, probably why dev's havent done it yet and the whole mirror debate thing which sometimes happens sometimes dont.

[Wam]

I'd focus on the FUN-factor when working on the SM class. At the moment I dont see a point in playing SM. It doesn't bring much to the table for the group and has not really anything where it shines.

There needs to be something to make it fun again. Something like dual whield, or throw weapon, or 2h whirl wind lol. Something unique and fun that makes you wanna play it. All the other classes have such great tools, the SM feels boring compared to them.

When you think about SM, why would you wanna play one? What comes to your mind beside lore? Nothing? Magic damage? kind of weak? yeah...

leaping up to oil and aoe punting everyone off (semi joke as it was grey area and not sure dev stance on it ha) as some keeps have poor terrain

M1 snare tying down enemies that engage, or try to flee... jumping into people and knocking them off bridges or cliffs... that seems like one of the reasons to play sm

that and trying to out heal healers in sc or city...

Bunkering objectives to troll people is another reason to play SM

Being a WW bot and your AM best friend