Change city queue system; group of 6 as bare minimum to enter queue

[Aurandilaz]

And what is going to happen with the players that are playing non-meta characters? They will never get sov?

What is non-meta?
1-2 WE/Wh is fine
1-2 engi/magus is fine
all tanks are fine and guards are always needed
all healers are fine and in demand
BW, Sorc, SW, SH, all do decent AoE
Chop, SL, WL, Mara all do decent AoE

What class is non-meta? The only argument I would make is against stacking more than 2 max WE/Wh/engi/magus but even then good players will exceptions and can still help you win fight even if the setup is not the most optimal.

The idea is that, with 6 being minimum, on average players would CHOOSE (hopefully) to have at least 1 healer and possibly 1 tank present (rest can be DPS), before charging in suicidally to get their pity loot from the endgame city fight content. Or you can make your 6 engi stack and keg-heal spam each other if you insist. The 6 players hopefully will have a leader (or target caller) and maybe even do something as hardcore as joining voicecoms before entering the queue.

Scenarios encourage grouping, dungeons require grouping, there are very few arguments that make any sense that would validate the need for players to be able to just walk in alone to the grand finale of the campaign push.

"I have only 30mins to play per week, just let me leech my loser bags" - no, if others had time to push the campaign to the gates of city over 10-20hours of realm versus realm warfare, the final chapter of that gigantic clash between Destruction and Order should NOT revolve arounds the whims of soloplayers who feel themselves above grouping up in an multiplayer game but yet expect rewards to be handed on them for showing up.

[dirnsterer]

The idea is that, with 6 being minimum, on average players would CHOOSE (hopefully) to have at least 1 healer and possibly 1 tank present (rest can be DPS), before charging in suicidally to get their pity loot from the endgame city fight content. Or you can make your 6 engi stack and keg-heal spam each other if you insist. The 6 players hopefully will have a leader (or target caller) and maybe even do something as hardcore as joining voicecoms before entering the queue.

Like what the **** is even the point even then? How is this any better than 6 random engis get into same instance? They just get 6 people in, they do not get in voice comms, they do not designate anything, they shoot whatever, they do not have kegs. Now player has gone around this amazing new system that has been setup and it amounts up to basically nothing.

[agemennon675]

And what is going to happen with the players that are playing non-meta characters? They will never get sov?

What is non-meta?
1-2 WE/Wh is fine
1-2 engi/magus is fine
all tanks are fine and guards are always needed
all healers are fine and in demand
BW, Sorc, SW, SH, all do decent AoE
Chop, SL, WL, Mara all do decent AoE

What class is non-meta? The only argument I would make is against stacking more than 2 max WE/Wh/engi/magus but even then good players will exceptions and can still help you win fight even if the setup is not the most optimal.

The idea is that, with 6 being minimum, on average players would CHOOSE (hopefully) to have at least 1 healer and possibly 1 tank present (rest can be DPS), before charging in suicidally to get their pity loot from the endgame city fight content. Or you can make your 6 engi stack and keg-heal spam each other if you insist. The 6 players hopefully will have a leader (or target caller) and maybe even do something as hardcore as joining voicecoms before entering the queue.

Scenarios encourage grouping, dungeons require grouping, there are very few arguments that make any sense that would validate the need for players to be able to just walk in alone to the grand finale of the campaign push.

"I have only 30mins to play per week, just let me leech my loser bags" - no, if others had time to push the campaign to the gates of city over 10-20hours of realm versus realm warfare, the final chapter of that gigantic clash between Destruction and Order should NOT revolve arounds the whims of soloplayers who feel themselves above grouping up in an multiplayer game but yet expect rewards to be handed on them for showing up.

You realise city instances are like ><15 right, I bet there are a lot of players especially dps ones on both sides which will never get in 2-2-2 groups simply because there will always be more dps than any tank-healer. You cannot just ban some of the servers pop from the most efficient end game gear grind content. Thats a horrible idea

[Panodil]

All content in the game is made for 2-2-2, how can it be more dps than tanks and healers? What are those dps doing when doing all the other content?

Hope they make matchmaking for soloq, no healers or tanks will soloq anyway.

[Aurandilaz]

You realise city instances are like ><15 right, I bet there are alot of players especially dps ones on both sides which will never get in 2-2-2 groups simply because there will always be more dps than any tank-healer. You cannot just ban some of the servers pop from the most efficent end game gear grind content. Thats an horrible idea

Who is getting banned? If 6 people make group, maybe they might even be from same guild, maybe 1 person voluntarily brings healer and another logs to their tank, and maybe they can rotate roles even over time?
At no point am I arguing in favour of enforcing strict 2-2-2 setup like ranked has, but rather having players do the bare minimum of grouping up before entering the city siege, even if it means having a 1 healer 5 rdps setup or some other weird suboptimal combo.
The extra time hopefully would allow more people to relog around in hopes of providing more options for creating more groups that include members of more than 1 archtype.

Like what the **** is even the point even then? How is this any better than 6 random engis get into same instance?

Hardly better, except that those engis would voluntarily be joining city without any expectations of heals/guard. Ideally they would bring at least 1 support class, hopefully more, but if the "6 as minimum" rule results in 6dps stacks, then that is their own choice of going into battle with their pants down. Hopefuilly the majority can form coherent groups either from their own guilds, or from alliance, or even talking to strangers in /5 to form something resembling a "group" in a multiplayer game.
Most of Destro is already capable of forming groups before signing up, at most 5-10% of population on each side would be somehow "left overs", and even then assuming they are capable of talking each other, few might be capable of relogging other alts and archtypes assuming they want to win and not just show up to leech loss-rewards. (assuming those 20 character slots are not engineers in different uniforms)

[agemennon675]

All content in the game is made for 2-2-2, how can it be more dps than tanks and healers? What are those dps doing when doing all the other content?

Hope they make matchmaking for soloq, no healers or tanks will soloq anyway.

You can see them by pressing L or joining scs, both sides has pugs and I bet they are more than people who do all the content via premade

[dirnsterer]

Like what the **** is even the point even then? How is this any better than 6 random engis get into same instance?

Hardly better, except that those engis would voluntarily be joining city without any expectations of heals/guard. Ideally they would bring at least 1 support class, hopefully more, but if the "6 as minimum" rule results in 6dps stacks, then that is their own choice of going into battle with their pants down. Hopefuilly the majority can form coherent groups either from their own guilds, or from alliance, or even talking to strangers in /5 to form something resembling a "group" in a multiplayer game.
Most of Destro is already capable of forming groups before signing up, at most 5-10% of population on each side would be somehow "left overs", and even then assuming they are capable of talking each other, few might be capable of relogging other alts and archtypes assuming they want to win and not just show up to leech loss-rewards. (assuming those 20 character slots are not engineers in different uniforms)

And the solo players will just say "Doing **** stack for city, whatever" and there you have 6 solo players in a city again. I just see this forceful method resulting in nothing. Like what are you even after with this? It has been this garbage since the end of the live days, you just get participation rewards willy nilly. When it used to be, "Your city got attacked, you AT MOST GET INVADER, but IF enemy wins THEY GET THE WARLORD / ROYAL STUFF" and that was the motivation to defend. You lost, you barely got **** all ever. But this again would just result in people just not showing up to defend as royal crests are not that big of a deal and the gear is not that shiny as you make it to be. (in modern iteration) Also it had the motivation of letting organised wb's to forts, to actually get to city where juicy invader and POSSIBILITY if you pulled it off as realm, royals and warlord gear.

[RuffRyder]

All content in the game is made for 2-2-2, how can it be more dps than tanks and healers? What are those dps doing when doing all the other content?

Hope they make matchmaking for soloq, no healers or tanks will soloq anyway.

That’s a bit far from reality I’d say, while for PvE in most cases 3 dps with 1 tank is the most efficient way, in PvP it highly depends on what you face, and 2-2-2 is the perfect world in theory, but not what happens in many parts of the game.

Don’t get me wrong here, I get your point, but you can’t expect all players to be able to provide all three (or rather four when splitting dps in melee and ranged) archetypes for the appropriate content.

Dps being the majority is a fact for both sides, willingness and ability to provide whatever is needed most a fine wish, but not what happens every day, although it would make the game better for everyone.

[VindicoAtrum]

Maybe a bit too late but I already wrote a proposal a few months ago to make Royal Crests account- and not character-bound. This would avoid the non-meta classes being an ‘issue’ and open up the possibility for people to bring the class their team needs rather than what class they want to gear.

Sounds like a complicated way to up the shard drop rate considerably so people can gear up better using rvr + bags.

[aa91837]

oh no..we can't farm anymore order pugs with our 24man premade alliance wb!? lets complain on the forums

/therad