Patch Notes 25/12/2020

[Sprak]

GM's don't make changes to the game. They can bring it up to a dev if they see something being abused.
This isn't the first time we've blocked off areas that should otherwise be inaccessible, and it's very unlikely to be the last time.
Areas like this are reported or discovered almost exclusively when players abuse them, GM's are called when players abuse something.
The extent of the abuse usually results in a faster response. Putting half a warband of dwarfs on an inaccessible tower (unless you run through a 60s PvE route and try to make a non-trivial jump that could be blocked by player collision all while getting shot at) makes it a pretty easy decision.
Roleplay is no excuse, we have never encouraged or approved their guild to add inaccessible spots to their little strategy book of whatever.

Just because the melee ball can't do anything against our specialized team doesnt mean it is not fair game. In fact, that same warband went up to wipe us. There are hills, towers and cliffs around for a reason.

And rather nice you place us in the 'abuse' section of things. Well played, War. Classy.

GM's are not called , GM got shot and somehow got his way within a day. Never mind that PvE ambushes has been a tactic employed by all guilds throughbout the server, helers on pve and dps fighting in rvr has been around for ages. Might want to focus on tier 3 city gateway not allowing order to do damage. Focus on a niche group instead. Moving into PvE and jumping at Bo's has been a valid tactic, unless we do it ofcourse. PnP got ambushed, PnP got back at us. Same range, same option. That they bring a melee warband is up to them, not us.

fight like everyone else inside the battlefield.
earn your position by fight.
going picnic into PvE for minutes early to set up beer party b4 others, then telling them what's the problem you can come here while we shooting.
It sounds like fairytales - territorial troll live under bridge eating everyone pass.

you've been doing it for so long. guess you don't see the problem of terrain exploit. maybe will not.
fine, we're getting better game thx to your testing.

Everyone else chases people in PVE, waits for lone runners to ambush in PVE, etc. What are you on about?

Exploiting Terrain is only something that happens if there is some secret glitch a few know about that others aren't able to use or utilize.

Using terrain was intended in game, would you prefer rectangular maps with no terrain at all, keeps at either end and 4 bo's in the middle? just flat land?
Part of the fun of the game is utilizing the terrain to give you an advantage in a fight. Magus do it all the time, perched up in some impossible to get to place with their pet, bombing from miles away as they self heal any dmg they might take from ranged. Completely "exploited" vs melee classes.

Some melee used to be able to at least try and leap up to them, but leap got nerfed into the ground.

I say create opportunities for people to utilize terrain, set up defensive positions, or be creative. If something seems too overwhelmingly powerful, you make it a bit less effective or more easily accessible to get to so that its not a guaranteed win. Restricting or eliminating these things makes the game play worse, not better.

[chakzo]

I do not post much due to respect from day f1...
Do WE need pounce?
Do WL the n1 nerfed class need its core to be off?
Do we want rdps to play mdps?
Or healers to play m/rdps?

Is there a class i play vanilla?

*all questions are rethorical and they should not be responded, but cmon....I dont feel the game anymore

[sonorous]

The funny part was when he said it takes 60 seconds to get to and you have to jump to make it. We will make sure to find some place that is in melee range in future for our rdps classes.

If we are to infer that that is the new condition for being a terrain exploit we will make sure in future it is reachable by melee warbands in under 30 seconds, and no jumping is required. Absolutely ridiculous.

[anarchypark]

whether it's exploit or not. it's border line at best.
here's example.
HP ch11 town cliff to Feiten's Lock path.
destro path was from Manor to pve load to order ch11 where town guard blocking cliff. very slim window to avoid guard range and LoS.
Talabecland Tower. you need to open outer wall when you need BO to rank up.
BC ch22 town cliff to nest on the branch.
and this patch towers. and many more.

smart game play? yeah hackers are smart. Financial schemes are smart.
i don't understand why devs don't touch engie/magus range. it's the start of all problems.
guess they really care about turret class.
but no, it's GM's fault bringing it to devs to ruin their fun.
get smart guys you're in dev's favor in my view.

i was preparing engie/magus balance proposal.
hope you don't get confused it was because of this. it's after 2sec sniper tactic.

[Sprak]

whether it's exploit or not. it's border line at best.
here's example.
HP ch11 town cliff to Feiten's Lock path.
destro path was from Manor to pve load to order ch11 where town guard blocking cliff. very slim window to avoid guard range and LoS.
Talabecland Tower. you need to open outer wall when you need BO to rank up.
BC ch22 town cliff to nest on the branch.
and this patch towers. and many more.

smart game play? yeah hackers are smart. Financial schemes are smart.
i don't understand why devs don't touch engie/magus range. it's the start of all problems.
guess they really care about turret class.
but no, it's GM's fault bringing it to devs to ruin their fun.
get smart guys you're in dev's favor in my view.

i was preparing engie/magus balance proposal.
hope you don't get confused it was because of this. it's after 2sec sniper tactic.

Your example of drawing a parallel to hackers/financial schemes and the case of using terrain in a smart and strategic way is ridiculous at best.

Terrain should be used that way, funny how only something happens when Bitterstone Engi's lay some heavy whoopin down. Yet no ones reported/complained/pointed out Many magus doing the same **** in places that are even harder to get to. But this isn't about order vs destro, its about terrain and its place in the game.

I don't see anything wrong with having terrain that allows for unique, creative, and fun game strategies and tactics that allow for epic battles instead of mindless zergballs melee training across the map. Should terrain that allows for those things be taken out or blocked off? no. Should it maybe be modified to adjust the level of advantage and such? absolutely. Not all terrain like this needs to be near BO's or important areas on the map either.

Biggest terrain issue in my mind is getting hooked on half the things in the game, stuck for 5+ seconds, and killed because of it. Why not fix that stuff? so people don't go to walk over a crack in the sidewalk and get stuck in a forever fall, unable to get out, then getting trampled by the enemy that stumbles upon them.

You want to add to the options of strategy and tactics with the game play, not take away. If there are a bunch of engi's or magus up in a tower and you want to kill them charge up the tower at your own risk. Otherwise avoid it. But positions like those do need to be accessible to everyone and it shouldn't always be something that's like a platform game to get there. Like all things, it will need adjusting.

[Lorsten]

Cmon, noone really cares about engies using terrain, imagine being salty about dying in oRvR...
I died million times to engies near KV keep, WH's ambush in praag, got rolled by zergs, killed 1 lowbie with zerg, being jumped on corpse, jumped on corpse. Its part of rvr, do you really think GM's and devs are salty about it?

The other thing is locations like Reikwald fort, where is BO in snipe range from fort walls, which has a big influence on balance, because you have to hold at least 1 WB 100% time.
TLDR: Let engies have fun wherever they want, but fix places, where it affects important rvr locations, like forts or BO's.

[hammerhead]

That is, there are 6 people who are playing the most lame class and somehow found a use for it, it's bad. And this new meta roamer squig that cuts out everything that can be targeted is good. He doesn’t even need to look for a place, just kemp the entrance to the IC. Ah, I forgot this is a group game. Oh wait...

[Rapzel]

I do not post much due to respect from day f1...
Do WE need pounce?
Do WL the n1 nerfed class need its core to be off?
Do we want rdps to play mdps?
Or healers to play m/rdps?

Is there a class i play vanilla?

*all questions are rethorical and they should not be responded, but cmon....I dont feel the game anymore

All my answers are rhetorical

WE pounce was obviously drawn from the hat of arbitrary changes that are meaningless, no one uses treacherous assault and it was added because WH got a armor debuff on an opener. So that the devs wouldn't have to deal with the WE fan bois complaining about order bias and how they can't kill anything in their full carnage spec.
WE is still over performing and does not need any sort of buffs even if it's meme buffs.

WL first of all has gotten several changes where no one nerf has come without buffs in another part of the career, except when it comes to the normalisation of damage on pets, but that applied to all pets (and by that logic engi should've been the most nerfed career as their turrets did 1 DMG per hit). When CS was nerfed, dots got buffed and so on.

2nd of all, all pounce ranges where nerfed, should only WL be the one with 65 ft? Or what are you implying?

3rd chosen and kotbs haven't been nerfed more? Mara, which did more damage than WL but now has been aligned to do as much damage as WL? or choppa which is just a bad version of slayer? AM and Shamans who got indirect nerfs with the morale drop nerf even though they're struggling the most as healers. Or rSH and rSW who got their M2 removed because apparently a 1 min cd possible timestamp kill on low hp and dodge targets was OP in T2 (apparently it was only okay on sorc/bw and Magus/engi)? Why do you even think SW and SH have gotten so many reworks?

4th tanks and guard, on live you could block and parry all guard damage it was a 0 str attack made from the front IIRC, here undefendable damage keeps its undefendable flag and defendable damage it's bonus strike through from main stat, it also keeps its type of attack i.e ranged has to be dodged/disrupted, and you think WL has even been close to being nerfed compared to other careers and mechanics? And don't get me started on the 25% guard DMG with 2H, what was that even? And yes I'm quite sure this was when the devs changed the guard damage to take account for dodge/disrupt as well.

Unsure what you're talking about here, but mSH and aSW existed on live and was played by a very few select. Here ranged got nerfed in 2015 because of a meme WB of SH chasing down certain players who apparently couldn't deal with it. Making both careers easy targets for pretty much all other careers to which they got viable (read overturned) melee specs instead, which both have had several big nerfs (very balanced game when grimslash and SM init debuff stacked, or TA and ABM stacked so you could do 1k hits with bad gas).
If you're talking about how engi and Magus has abused the terrain for ages, then yea it's a stupid change that makes no sense, just like the rest of the changes in this patch, but then again last 5 patches have made changes that make no sense according to me.

[Pkunk]

Terrain should be used that way, funny how only something happens when Bitterstone Engi's lay some heavy whoopin down. Yet no ones reported/complained/pointed out Many magus doing the same **** in places that are even harder to get to. But this isn't about order vs destro, its about terrain and its place in the game.

A bunch of cowards with healing support vs solo magus with rotten self heal on cooldown?. Its totally the same. Terrain spots where you cannot prevent enemy
to come and fight you is not a problem. Spots where you can prevent enemy from coming by putting down aoe and mines that prevent jumping? That is not fair
at all. It was for the same reason the other tower at that bo got closed down and probably the reason for some other
spots still not shut down. After all, those spots just gives wh's/we's some fun hunting. Unless its brave roleplay midgets with heal support and half a wb camping.
I guess those spots will die soon too.

[Glorian]

Spoiler:

Terrain should be used that way, funny how only something happens when Bitterstone Engi's lay some heavy whoopin down. Yet no ones reported/complained/pointed out Many magus doing the same **** in places that are even harder to get to. But this isn't about order vs destro, its about terrain and its place in the game.

A bunch of cowards with healing support vs solo magus with rotten self heal on cooldown?. Its totally the same. Terrain spots where you cannot prevent enemy
to come and fight you is not a problem. Spots where you can prevent enemy from coming by putting down aoe and mines that prevent jumping? That is not fair
at all. It was for the same reason the other tower at that bo got closed down and probably the reason for some other
spots still not shut down. After all, those spots just gives wh's/we's some fun hunting. Unless its brave roleplay midgets with heal support and half a wb camping.
I guess those spots will die soon too.

Sounding heroic. Although the Tower or the other spots were never defended for long. I mean in the last 4 years.
If there was an equal 2/2/2 destro force the Dwarf Gang have loost sooner or later. Tanks, Zealots, Doks jumping over and using Aoe Knockbacks. On top of M1 Shaman Knockbacks, SH 120ft AoE Knockback, Greenskin Balista you loose more and more Dwarfs till the Top Force can't do anything more harmfull.