On Cities Starvation, Population Disparity and Classes Balance

[AxelF]

I play mostly during EU primetime and since September I'm playing with my guild on Destru side, even thought we are long time Order players.

You start a thread wondering why there's a population balance with that statement?

[Cobra81]

I can't tell you about statistics but i can tell you from lots of altoholic experience:

Order melee sucks balls... that's all.
Each of the order tanks is just plain no-fun bullshit to play compared to the gameplay of destro tanks.

Example:
You wanna buff your grp or just be tanky? No problem with BO: you can stand there forever playing HTL-Bot and AP-REG, buff your mates without target or while blocking or just use your complete OFF-Tree for tanking, why not you whot... and you look awesome. Then you switch to SM... there's no buffs without target, the only tank without any AP-generation, you're completely dependent on your stances to do **** or get buffs (block tactic)... You just run around being kited to **** trying to hit anything to just do your plain base job. Who the **** had the idea to connect your main Grp-Buff to your silence? Why do i need a target for all my **** blade enchantments *laughs in WAAAAGH and CHM buffing mah grp* And then you see your SM clip through each of his armors/shields... frustrating. For each of every "How-fun-is-this? LOL brrrrrrt"-moment with a destrotank there's minimum 1 "Holy-this-is-useless-and-frustrating"-moment for an order tank.

That you can follow through with BG vs. IB too... IB is so **** boring and lame to play compared to BG it's not even funny... holy **** half of my skills don't even deal damage and only block a GCD for that i just can jump around doing nothing... and thats for EVERY **** 10 SECONDS for 3-5 GCDs. You can play IB-Buffbot without even using 1 single damage dealing skill while taping permanently through your wb to max buff. Meanwhile BG goes BRRRRRRR in ST and AoE, numbers everywhere (even when fluff), pure enjoyment.

I played each and every tank for a while and everytime i log on order tanks i get bored out withing half an hour cause the gameplay of order tanks is sooooo much more frustrating and boring compared to Destro especially for the whole leveling time. I bet most order tanks get abandoned between lvl20-30.

You wonder why order melee is underpresented? FIx your god damn order tanks to actually be FUN TO PLAY and watch the melee participation of order rise automatically over time.

Agree to 100%

Back on live ive played a Chosen with my premade and it went pretty smooth. In RoR, some of us started on Order and I rolled a Kotbs and felt useless pretty fast. Then i tried a Chosen solo and this tank is pretty strong, even with S/S your dmg isn´t that bad and you can be a threat to healers while a Kotbs is ignorable.
Ive tried also an IB and i liked him very much, even more since some of the changes. Then I rolled a BG and he is a beast, give him a spear, healreduce and detaunt-immu tactic and you shred healers on the move and even faster if a mDPS is following you + you don´t face these, escaping from a WB and killing 12 men(exaggerated said), DPS-Shamas.
Can´t say anything about SM-BO because i haven´t played one.

Pop/faction ratio in general speaks an own clear language. My friends, some from the premade time back then, quitted RoR because of these class-imbalances and they don´t want to waste more time with the Order classes. They also don´t want to log on destro because of the overpop they already have.

Fact is, 1 side will quit of frustration and the other side of boredom. Personally, I play only 1-3 times a week for ~2 hours. Last week I did 1 run bastion stairs and that was more than enough.

Whatever the reasons are, but RoR is in an unhealthy state atm.

[Ysaran]

I play mostly during EU primetime and since September I'm playing with my guild on Destru side, even thought we are long time Order players.

You start a thread wondering why there's a population balance with that statement?

LoL, if you want the next time I will straight up lie.
Well, why not start now: I main Order since long time, I play mainly rdps and I LOVE pugging around. Also, I'm a hot tall 18 y.o. blonde.

Seriously though, I started playing Destru in September, when Destru was the underdog (at least during my playtime). Now the table has turned but I still have business to do on Destru. No doubt I will be back on Order as soon I get my business done here. Which may take quite a time, considering the number of cities I'm able to get in

[Sponn]

Remove Engi from game and suddenly the amount of rdps players on Order equals the amount of rdps players on Destro.

Anyway, Order melee ball is more effective than Destro melee ball when it comes to highest possible potential between equally competent+geared players, it's just that the amount of good order guilds with full wb rosters is quite low compared to the destro arsenal of guilds running 2-2-2 setups.
Having WL nerfed does not help the Order frontlines, and another maybe more impactful difference is the lower number of Order tanks versus people playing Chosen/BORK/BG for fashion/looks.
IB is bit boring and having to play a piano to dish out ST buffs/debuffs might not be the most beloved tank class to play (plus you have to play a dwarf) - their 2h spec could probably use some minor boosting.
SM has received some nerfs over the years, from latest WoH range nerf to midtree 13pts being gutted, minipunt that requires block, removal of their Heavens Blade resis debuff.
KOTB has been thoroughly nerfed time after time, it remains solid WB tank pick, but their dmg output is abysmal as always, their crit buffs have been gutted, their m2 was at one time nerfed to have a 120s cd before getting some other nefs, Runefang has been nuked... Sure, the class might remain the most wanted tank for warbands even now, but good luck retaining players that want to remain knight mains if all you get is nerf after nerf year after year.


Order isn't somehow weak, but the absurd way some classes are overbuffed (engi buffs) versus hammering down nerfs down the throats of other classes (WL, Sm, Kotb, WH) and you start realizing why people would rather play rdps classes.

lol people seem to be negligent to mention that that "strong" order meleeball is literally just slayers, one class.

How is it fair that for one side to beat the other they need to stack not only one specific dps type, melee, but literally just one class.


So for Order to be better than destro they need to stack one specific class. Where as Destro get 3 classes to pick from to assemble their meleeball. And people don't see the discrepancy.

"Omg Order just force your entire side to play one meta melee class." Or you know, maybe order could get some tweaks to where they dont need to stack one class to beat an average spread of the destro side (which is easier to get).

[puzzolamistica]

well why u should play 6man roaming as order when u get outnumbered, whit my guild when we want to play we trry to buinld up a pug wb and try to compete arround the map.
but this is not the main problem.
as one guy said all tanks on order side are just a worst version of destros if u go small scale, destro tanks offer damage and utility, just watch mastery tree.
2h ib has damage dosent have utility wile bg has it.
2h sm is a worst version of bo whit less evryting.
2h kinghit is a meme he is the less tanky of all of them, less damage and if we talk about utility is a mix from bg and chosen whitout damage.
all those thing are not fun to play if u are on order side,also u have to add the kite power of shamy and squig that are so painfull to face, also u have to consider wl than if u go whit pet u are complitly usless if u face more than 10 peoples wile your pet is perma death.
Play a wl in a 6man that is roaming arround the zerg is so frustratying cuz u feel that u always have the wrong spec.

[Banjomissen]

lol people seem to be negligent to mention that that "strong" order meleeball is literally just slayers, one class.

How is it fair that for one side to beat the other they need to stack not only one specific dps type, melee, but literally just one class.


So for Order to be better than destro they need to stack one specific class. Where as Destro get 3 classes to pick from to assemble their meleeball. And people don't see the discrepancy.

"Omg Order just force your entire side to play one meta melee class." Or you know, maybe order could get some tweaks to where they dont need to stack one class to beat an average spread of the destro side (which is easier to get).

Exactly this.

Not only does Order need to "git gud", "git organized and adapt" we apparently also need to play only a few classes if we want to win: KoTBS, Slayer and WP.

Also comments about Order having a theoretical advantage because of a few abilities might be true but how is it working out in practice? Not seeing lots of the bigger organized Destro guild flock to Order to take advantage of it.

[CeeJay89]

Wh whit aoe armor debuff...but golden boys always want everything.

It's a good and fun change, but Runepriest could already do the same thing with a tactic for organized warbands, except with a 90% uptime. WH can only do it out of stealth.

A <10% to ~15% damage increase (less effective the more armor ignore someone has) for Slayers isn't going to merit taking a WH as the second MDPS over another Slayer, because WH still doesn't have the AoE damage (and they shouldn't) to capitalize on the debuff. It means they'll get what they already had; maybe one or two spots in a warband for AoE debuffs via bullets with Dragon Gun and maybe single target.

[MMXX43]

So if most people play both sides and order mains are but a few, the argument that Order needs to get good crumbles. Its the xrealm that needs to get good

Take an average player of Order make him lvl a "mirror" on Destro and they are immidiately better ! not because of skill or gear but because Dessies have simply more polished classes + synergy
Kobts BW synergy gone , Bw Engi ( non existant synergy ) - Sorc Magus ( Magus deals A LOT of damage tbh ....should check on that ) Corp Debuffs vs Melee Train ( with 3 pulls , just cause.. )

On the general note xrealmers will still think there is no balance problem , destro mains that play Order ( not as hardcore as when they play their mains mind you ! ) pretend they are not biased. Destro Forum meme warrior apologists by now proffesionals jumping on a post with a very toxic behaviour just cause they have to deal with Rampage. Cringe.

Order is for derps and good players . Destro is for mediocre players that think they are good.

[Onigokko0101]

So if most people play both sides and order mains are but a few, the argument that Order needs to get good crumbles. Its the xrealm that needs to get good

Take an average player of Order make him lvl a "mirror" on Destro and they are immidiately better ! not because of skill or gear but because Dessies have simply more polished classes + synergy
Kobts BW synergy gone , Bw Engi ( non existant synergy ) - Sorc Magus ( Magus deals A LOT of damage tbh ....should check on that ) Corp Debuffs vs Melee Train ( with 3 pulls , just cause.. )

On the general note xrealmers will still think there is no balance problem , destro mains that play Order ( not as hardcore as when they play their mains mind you ! ) pretend they are not biased. Destro Forum meme warrior apologists by now proffesionals jumping on a post with a very toxic behaviour just cause they have to deal with Rampage. Cringe.

Order is for derps and good players . Destro is for mediocre players that think they are good.

Okaaaay then buddy. Suuuure.

[lyncher12]

rvr needs revamped. get rid of this box ****. i dont login to roleplay as ups and neither should anyone else.