AM in City Instance not worth playing

[Ysaran]

High pressure group or not doesn't matter. FODG/Energy of Vaul heals out of party

And what excatly do you do when EoV/FODG is on cooldown? Shamans might have the luxury of having near constant cooldown reducers. On order it looks quite different. Do you seriously suggest that you will outheal a WP with an EoV every 5 seconds?

It's every 3s, not 5. 4s at worst. You can do lots of things: hot, repositioning, detaunt, puddle, etc...
With both AM and Shammy you can outheal every bad healer. Also, numbers on scoreboards means nothing. Your role is too keep ppl alive, you can be a top lvl healer even without being 1st on scoreboards

P.S. "near almost CD reducer" lol, so naive. No one care outside of organizad group.

[CountTalabecland]

Shamans suffer from the same but they are small and fast.

If a shaman is sitting still and gets pounced and healdebuffed he is likely dead or not focusing on grp heals.

AM is in a worse place due to GTDC requiring them to stay 40ft away from choppa or die. Playing destro/order the amount of work you have to do on spacing is much different due to this ability.

[Cimba]

It's every 3s, not 5. 4s at worst.

Lol. I'm done. Thanks for the talk.

[teiloh]

As a Destro main currently, I don't see the disparity vs shaman. They get focused for the same reasons, though the model argument doesn't apply to them, using Enemy markers and assisting, it isn't hard to find them. Especially since we are fighting 24v24 over either static objectives or a moving lord. You can't kite half the time, that's the problem. Sham's don't benefit from this more than AMs imo. If kiting was a factor they would be more in demand.

Generally speaking though, it's the power of insta-rezz and cloth armor. But you have a 5s AoE detaunt, which should be enough time to get a guard/challenge/bellow. The problem is that there tends to only be space for 1 am/sham in an organized group. The other healers are just too tanky and have too many tools to pick a AM/sham over. Which is sad, double group cleanse is awesome. But RP/Z has far too many tools and general survivability, and DoK/WP will always be core, unless the class was broken.

How would you fix it though, w/o A, breaking DPS am/sham and B, remaining somewhat balanced? One hopes that AM/Sham will get some love. They have had iterations on this server where they reigned supreme. I used to kite/tank half a WB on my AM during the op life-tap months. Whatever it is though, you can't just give them a bunch of tools or survivability.

Not every class is awesome for city sieges. A WB that needs a healer however, will take an AM much faster than I imagine WHs or the 19th engi gets picked...

If you've played both, haven't you noticed that the Sham AOE detaunt is double the duration and uptime and thus GCD cost? The two greenskin racials are also huge for Shaman in any situation, and the Detaunt stacks with regular detaunt to get a -75% damage. Shamans are arguably the most survivable class in the game, even including shield tanks.

[Ysaran]

It's every 3s, not 5. 4s at worst.

Lol. I'm done. Thanks for the talk.

Care to explain? Am I missing something?

[Ysaran]

As a Destro main currently, I don't see the disparity vs shaman. They get focused for the same reasons, though the model argument doesn't apply to them, using Enemy markers and assisting, it isn't hard to find them. Especially since we are fighting 24v24 over either static objectives or a moving lord. You can't kite half the time, that's the problem. Sham's don't benefit from this more than AMs imo. If kiting was a factor they would be more in demand.

Generally speaking though, it's the power of insta-rezz and cloth armor. But you have a 5s AoE detaunt, which should be enough time to get a guard/challenge/bellow. The problem is that there tends to only be space for 1 am/sham in an organized group. The other healers are just too tanky and have too many tools to pick a AM/sham over. Which is sad, double group cleanse is awesome. But RP/Z has far too many tools and general survivability, and DoK/WP will always be core, unless the class was broken.

How would you fix it though, w/o A, breaking DPS am/sham and B, remaining somewhat balanced? One hopes that AM/Sham will get some love. They have had iterations on this server where they reigned supreme. I used to kite/tank half a WB on my AM during the op life-tap months. Whatever it is though, you can't just give them a bunch of tools or survivability.

Not every class is awesome for city sieges. A WB that needs a healer however, will take an AM much faster than I imagine WHs or the 19th engi gets picked...

If you've played both, haven't you noticed that the Sham AOE detaunt is double the duration and uptime and thus GCD cost? The two greenskin racials are also huge for Shaman in any situation, and the Detaunt stacks with regular detaunt to get a -75% damage. Shamans are arguably the most survivable class in the game, even including shield tanks.

Detaunt has same uptime. It's just a tooltip misprint

[teiloh]

wasn't in an organized group,voice or even had properly timed cd reducers. though for every 1 of these theres like 8 where its not like that. shaman/am not only needs proper timing of ww,etc they need a fight that lasts longer than 5 seconds and has people grouped up. a lot of effort as opposed to just using smite and group hot/heal as such i would not recommend anyone to play this **** class.

Sham doesn't need timing of CD reducers like any other Destro, if you have a Choppa its up instantly for 20 seconds at the start of a fight and a BO can also cast it without a target.

[teiloh]

Detaunt has same uptime. It's just a tooltip misprint

Nice, guess the AM version was buffed some time

[Ysaran]

wasn't in an organized group,voice or even had properly timed cd reducers. though for every 1 of these theres like 8 where its not like that. shaman/am not only needs proper timing of ww,etc they need a fight that lasts longer than 5 seconds and has people grouped up. a lot of effort as opposed to just using smite and group hot/heal as such i would not recommend anyone to play this **** class.

Sham doesn't need timing of CD reducers like any other Destro, if you have a Choppa its up instantly for 20 seconds at the start of a fight and a BO can also cast it without a target.

That's just theorycrafting. Actually most Choppas/BOs don't use CD reducer because either they have nothing to gain from it or are just not good enough to remember that have it

P.S. in pug environment, obviously

[teiloh]

RP is not tankier than Zealots, they do have the option of an armor tactic but Zealots have other defensive options, and Order just does less damage with the one exception of the WL/Marauder pairing, and even that is close.

Also, does anyone know if crit heal/Desperation tactic on rez was deliberately patched out, or is it a bug?