Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

[Tyrean]

As someone who also plays both sides and has played the game since 2008 I have seen many versions of certain classes and compositions being very powerful in the right hands and I doubt that will ever change, which is part of the reason we love the game as it creates a competitive yet mutually respectful community (for the most part) which is rare in most modern PvP mmos.

I don't think this is just another 'nerf rampage post' as the OP has also noted some other comparisons, although I do agree with on some of the points raised. We were talking recently in a 6 man at how much more relaxed you can be whilst fighting as Order than when we play our Destro toons, given the increased amount of cc (things that can get you killed if you are slightly out of position) as opposed to Destro. Wings of Heaven (not on Destro) No Escape (not on Destro) ranged KD's 2 reliable on Order Vs zero on Destro and Ambush etc.. as well as a more reliable pull with fetch on WL vs Mara pull which can be countered by pressing jump when you see it being channelled and also fetch being instant cast, to name a few.

Whilst this is not another nerf Order post it is difficult sometimes to state facts when people who only play one faction read them with rose tinted glasses and are not interested in any sort of balance or are to stubborn to accept that maybe there are some players that are passionate about the game and don't want one side or class to be OP but just get told (you are being blatantly bias etc..). We accept it how it is and offer our thoughts and learn to adapt when fighting against an enemy by knowing all of their strengths and weaknesses. I feel a ranged kd on the SH rework would be a more than welcome addition to their kit to level with the SW. And although Rampage is what it is and the Choppa equivalent on the same tree is an attack that gives 100ap and exhausts rage (unless using Wot Rules tactic) which pales in comparison to Rampage, just remove 'Keep on Choppin' and give Choppa Rampage? or buff/change 'Keep on Choppin' (currently mostly useless)... just a thought.

As the OP mentioned the Devs are doing a great job and it is their time they are giving which is appreciated by all, but some constructive feedback and observations made by players who are veterans of the game and just want a fair (whilst diverse/unique) playing field should always be welcome. I won't list everything as people will start saying its another Order bias post purely because the points raised by the OP seem like they are slightly Destro biased. Balance will never exist in this game and that is not necessarily a bad thing, but tweaking certain things that give advantages when used with correct synergy and skill, should be adjusted so that skill ultimately determines the outcome and not overpowered classes/set ups when the gear levels are equal (excluding zerg fights which is more on the player base and organisation than class balance).

[Sofong]

problem is not only the slayer, problem is armor pen getting out of control in this game, this combine with slayers kit set, being extremely benificial stacking armor pen and ws and parry, make it as broken as it is now.

[jughurta]

RVR need revert aoe cap too 6 or 9 with tactics for all aoe . Thus the strategy, the single target, finds its place

aoe cap to 24 helps fighting the zerg,

reverting to 6-9 wouldn't make single target viable in RvR as you would get zerged by 4 WB with no way to counter it. It's already hard enough as it is, don't make it worse

choose your battles differently in the zone, satisfy the small scale in a REALMVSREALM game it's just .....

The small scale is ego, because they are often absent from fortresses etc ...


PS i m a solo player, duo max 6 men and i wish the revert aoe

[wildwindblows]

Choppa's GTDC have been nerfed because of order whinnig so it is time to nerf rampage now It can be nerfed to st. Press button and boom entire wb melted in a few sec. UNFAİR

[kmark101]

OP is extremely biased guy.

You cry a nerf to Rampage, being undefendable is breaking the game, at the same time you call TANKS equal (rofl...) with destro tanks having self morale pump, which results black orks dropping bellows some 20 seconds into any fight - guess what, just at the same time you get to yellow rage as slayer, activate rampage and get to yellow rage again to hit... and that 1,200 damage aoe is also undefendable because it's morale... so what is balanced now here? Black orks reaching instant 1,200 undefendable aoe drop vs slayers doing some 300 damage undefendable hit for 10-20 sec?

Also you call healers "balanced", with DoK class existing in the game in its current form and forgetting about unkillable shamans...

And then you cite sorcs being "slightly better" ST, wtf are you smoking really, the fact that spirit damage type debuff is 2-3x the value of order's elemental debuff capabilities should tell you something... BW is better in aoe, right, but sorc is not "slightly" better in ST, it's lightyears better, thanks to how debuffs are distributed between the factions.

[emiliorv]

The real issue atm is the lack of premade team on destro outisde of prime time, pugs get farmed hard and people complain

Hard to pull premades or WB leaders to destro side atm, why you would do that ?? i cant tell about tanks, but in MDPS/RDPS/HEALER order get the best classes...ppl can argue about synergies and other BS,. but if we are talking about raw numbers that 3 roles are filled by better classes in order.

Maybe (maybe) looking the whole realm is different, but if you want to make a maxed team (grp/wb/whatever) you can do better in order simply stacking those classes

[Sofong]

The real issue atm is the lack of premade team on destro outisde of prime time, pugs get farmed hard and people complain

Hard to pull premades or WB leaders to destro side atm, why you would do that ?? i cant tell about tanks, but in MDPS/RDPS/HEALER order get the best classes...ppl can argue about synergies and other BS,. but if we are talking about raw numbers that 3 roles are filled by better classes in order.

Maybe (maybe) looking the whole realm is different, but if you want to make a maxed team (grp/wb/whatever) you can do better in order simply stacking those classes

when the pros somehow not playing with their grp mates, they play wl

[jughurta]

OP is extremely biased guy.

Also you call healers "balanced", with DoK class existing in the game in its current form and forgetting about unkillable shamans...

Dok VS WP . DOK have little more dps but less heal and less survivability than WP heal or shield

Shaman vs Archmage is the same
one run (but order have 3 range stun and 3 class can fly ) and Archmage tank with detaunt M1 self heal and wait DOT kill or searing touch in M1

[junkxjunk]

OP is extremely biased guy.

You cry a nerf to Rampage, being undefendable is breaking the game, at the same time you call TANKS equal (rofl...) with destro tanks having self morale pump, which results black orks dropping bellows some 20 seconds into any fight - guess what, just at the same time you get to yellow rage as slayer, activate rampage and get to yellow rage again to hit... and that 1,200 damage aoe is also undefendable because it's morale... so what is balanced now here? Black orks reaching instant 1,200 undefendable aoe drop vs slayers doing some 300 damage undefendable hit for 10-20 sec?

Also you call healers "balanced", with DoK class existing in the game in its current form and forgetting about unkillable shamans...

And then you cite sorcs being "slightly better" ST, wtf are you smoking really, the fact that spirit damage type debuff is 2-3x the value of order's elemental debuff capabilities should tell you something... BW is better in aoe, right, but sorc is not "slightly" better in ST, it's lightyears better, thanks to how debuffs are distributed between the factions.

Good that you are unbiased please elaborate how the DoK is sooo much better than WP (or better at all, i bet he comes back with some **** about dps dok having more autoattack dmg.)
Or how even if the sorc is better at ST, thats nearly no concern in large scale rvr. Or how you convientently forget the unique Morales of order Tanks (morale drain, jump, aoe root)

[Lorsten]

OP is extremely biased guy.

You cry a nerf to Rampage, being undefendable is breaking the game, at the same time you call TANKS equal (rofl...) with destro tanks having self morale pump, which results black orks dropping bellows some 20 seconds into any fight - guess what, just at the same time you get to yellow rage as slayer, activate rampage and get to yellow rage again to hit... and that 1,200 damage aoe is also undefendable because it's morale... so what is balanced now here? Black orks reaching instant 1,200 undefendable aoe drop vs slayers doing some 300 damage undefendable hit for 10-20 sec?

This is why Morale dmg been capped hardly, for being undefendable, unbalanced and not fun for everyone i guess. The morales was fine, when being used in small scale (9 man cap) and become totally uncontrollable when 24 man cap was introduced.
And this is why destro expect something to be done about slayer crazy dmg combo. Rampage, ID are fine, it always was. But it became cancer mechanic in 24ppl+ gameplay. Proper order WB's (NGE, TUP) are able to stack this undefendable mechanic dmg to hilarious lvl, where snb tanks melts faster than their dd.

Sometimes "fine" and "working as intended" abilities become game breaking when applied to another scale. This was the case with mara's stacking WB's with moral drain (we sometimes stacked 8 maras in FMJ WB, just for lulz), with bomb warbands stacking classes with 1200 M2.