WH and WE (Discussion)

[Zxul]

Yep, the constructs are suppose to have FS3. Unless something got messed up with their init, no way a WE should have even close to that many crits- on my FS3 toons with a decent init I get crit pretty rarely by whs. So either killing constructs till the WE got lucky with rng, or getting m3 before attacking the construct.

Now take away most of the crits, and see how much dps that WE got left.

[Tabelrel]

As a word of caution I would just say be careful what you ask for, as almost certainly what the dev's may grant with one hand they will potentially take with the other. I think both classes are in pretty decent shape at the moment, they are easy to play, but harder to play well and that makes them interesting with a unique toolkit of abilities to solo/small scale play.

For the record I played the WE for 3/4 years on live and then last few months on RoR so not a total noob but not up there yet. She is in 4 Vanq, 3 Invader, Fortress Wep and SC wep so not bis my any means but ok. Her DBR which I've haven't reset is steadily climbing as she gears up and I re-learn how to play her. That seems to suggest to me that as she kills more than she dies the class is in a fairly decent place. The WE\WH DBR always hangs around 0 so clear the two classes are fairly evenly matched, although a lot of that may be the Agile Escape\Stealth game we all play with each other. I would say if I'm opened and KD'd by a WH then I get up with 20% - 25% health and if you buff the WH openers then am I getting up? If you go down that line with the WE\WH will we just end up with a nerf at some point as with the WL. Should any class kill from an opener with minimal chance of target recovery or escape? It would be nice to have but can see a nerf bat coming from a mile off.

That's not to say things on the damage front shouldn't be improved but maybe should come from the weaponary instead of ability buffs The dev's when they brought out invader weapons noted that while armour has improved the weapons haven't scaled with it. On live, the LOTD daggers (Tear of Sokth) and City Weapons increased the damage and speed output, also adding in short term melee damage tali's and 9 second snare procs so will be interesting so see if they are re-included in RoR at some point as part of the weaponary upgrade.

I wonder if WB\City inclusion is more of a perception thing on the part of others than a lack of actual useful abilities. Recently, I've been in City Pug Wb's where she has only managed to get out a couple of hundred K damage\low db's, but then in other City wb's where she has put out 1 mil+ ST damage\high db's The difference is not the WE\WH abilities or mine just the capability of the wb to protect, heal and allow her to deal the damage.

Kinda off topic, most probably like most of this post, sorry When I started re-learning her i looked around for outside info and came across an archive of the old Taransula "BlogtheWitch" posts with links to archived CurseDb builds. So link below, just to show how some of the tactics/abilities have changed since live.

http://web-old.archive.org/web/20090826 ... 11:2208:29

[Freerider]

How is we/wh currently performing against the rest of burst mdps? Lets forget about meta and focus on class damage/tools is worth to pick a wh on your order group instead of a wl/asw?

[Seravajan]

In scenarios it looks not so bad for them. But a WL seems still to deal more damage than a WH on order side.

[wpc56]

When WH can crit 1.9k then we'll talk. So many dishonest WE main with their biases.

BiS WE pop on squishy, they are either dead or at ~20% hp by the time stun wears off, that's how much proc/dmg they push out. Not much counter play since the dmg is already done.

BiS WH pop on squishy, they are at -40% with execution (BAL) that are delayed dmg they can be cleansed. They don't have the tactic to buff their dmg out of stealth so their out of stealth rotation has lower burst, plus delayed execution dmg. There's a window of counter play for those squishy or their team

For those WE claim that WH AP tactic isn't important are just bad players, sometime there are extended fight (like I don't know... city) that would yet again be in favor for WE... one that WH doesn't have.

[siglade]

When WH can crit 1.9k then we'll talk. So many dishonest WE main with their biases.

BiS WE pop on squishy, they are either dead or at ~20% hp by the time stun wears off, that's how much proc/dmg they push out. Not much counter play since the dmg is already done.

BiS WH pop on squishy, they are at -40% with execution (BAL) that are delayed dmg they can be cleansed. They don't have the tactic to buff their dmg out of stealth so their out of stealth rotation has lower burst, plus delayed execution dmg. There's a window of counter play for those squishy or their team

For those WE claim that WH AP tactic isn't important are just bad players, sometime there are extended fight (like I don't know... city) that would yet again be in favor for WE... one that WH doesn't have.

Both kill the squishy on kd, don't have to argue on that it just a matter of crit..

[Zxul]

When WH can crit 1.9k then we'll talk. So many dishonest WE main with their biases.

BiS WE pop on squishy, they are either dead or at ~20% hp by the time stun wears off, that's how much proc/dmg they push out. Not much counter play since the dmg is already done.

BiS WH pop on squishy, they are at -40% with execution (BAL) that are delayed dmg they can be cleansed. They don't have the tactic to buff their dmg out of stealth so their out of stealth rotation has lower burst, plus delayed execution dmg. There's a window of counter play for those squishy or their team

For those WE claim that WH AP tactic isn't important are just bad players, sometime there are extended fight (like I don't know... city) that would yet again be in favor for WE... one that WH doesn't have.

1. Had wh crit on my magus for 1.9 k+ 1.5 years ago, with the gear avaliable back then, your point?
2. But just for you- wh have a +35% dmg tactic on disrupt, and a 7 sec 100% disrupt skill. WEs don't have anything even close. Whs also have a 5 sec 100% parry to finish off the mdps, which doesn't requires building morale. WEs again don't have anything even close. So once again, your point?
3. I'm a WE, and I only use the ap tactic for pve, you got ap pots for a reason. As for bad players, you are the one whining about whs, without knowing which advantages they have over WEs. So I guess I will go for classic, stfu and LTP.

[Pkunk]

Please devs; dont "fix" anything about we or wh. I don't even play wh but I don't want them to suffer either. So please just ignore both classes. Its all fine.

[siglade]

1. Had wh crit on my magus for 1.9 k+ 1.5 years ago, with the gear avaliable back then, your point?
2. But just for you- wh have a +35% dmg tactic on disrupt, and a 7 sec 100% disrupt skill. WEs don't have anything even close. Whs also have a 5 sec 100% parry to finish off the mdps, which doesn't requires building morale. WEs again don't have anything even close. So once again, your point?
3. I'm a WE, and I only use the ap tactic for pve, you got ap pots for a reason. As for bad players, you are the one whining about whs, without knowing which advantages they have over WEs. So I guess I will go for classic, stfu and LTP.

1. Was doing 3k+ with my WE 2 year ago, now with a good setup even 4k can be doable..
2. 35% on disrupt compared to 15% on being hit/opener and in that case WE won because it work on all type of fight. Both have 100% disrupt, 100% parry is kinda **** again someone with a brain.
3. Diversity do you know what is it ? I have 7 different tactics set on WE, 2 on WH because almost all of them are garbage.. If you can't understand that we can't help.

[Zxul]

1. Had wh crit on my magus for 1.9 k+ 1.5 years ago, with the gear avaliable back then, your point?
2. But just for you- wh have a +35% dmg tactic on disrupt, and a 7 sec 100% disrupt skill. WEs don't have anything even close. Whs also have a 5 sec 100% parry to finish off the mdps, which doesn't requires building morale. WEs again don't have anything even close. So once again, your point?
3. I'm a WE, and I only use the ap tactic for pve, you got ap pots for a reason. As for bad players, you are the one whining about whs, without knowing which advantages they have over WEs. So I guess I will go for classic, stfu and LTP.

1. Was doing 3k+ with my WE 2 year ago, now with a good setup even 4k can be doable..
2. 35% on disrupt compared to 15% on being hit/opener and in that case WE won because it work on all type of fight. Both have 100% disrupt, 100% parry is kinda **** again someone with a brain.
3. Diversity do you know what is it ? I have 7 different tactics set on WE, 2 on WH because almost all of them are garbage.. If you can't understand that we can't help.

1. On what exactly? Lvl 16 bw doesn't counts. Neither is dmg near wc.
2. 35% on disrupt, on a class which can (and should) change tactics per target you open on. And I have won fights (vs say dps wp) with m1 7 sec parry buff, if you can't win a fight by using a total of 12 sec parry just reroll.
3. I understand, that you don't know how to play or to spec your wh. What I don't understand is why I should consider it my problem.