Making auras active abilities

[Brakh]

I don't think that complete revamp of already established core mechanics is a good thing. Especially when both commands and auras are well mirrored. It is true that Chosen and KotBS are the least demanding classes of all three tanks archetypes but is it something wrong? I think that many players selected Chosen/KotBS because of their simplicity and would like to keep it that way. Good tanking requires from players to track many things already. IMO adding to this bag few additional options to manage will overly complex these classes.
Please don't make another classes which will require NB to play them efficiently.
There are plenty areas in current gameplay which requires immidient action instead of digging in something which is working.

[Gurismar]

So I'll start by saying that I don't think a change should be made as someone that mains a Knight. There are plenty of things that a good or great tank can be doing to impact a fight utility wise that makes them fun to play. I also appreciate that having less things to deal with in the extra button pushing vein makes leading/directing a wb easier to accomplish and focus on. That being said, if a change is going to be made.....what about this:

1. A resource that we can call "Zeal" for Knights and "Insert Edgelord Term" for Chosen. A unique skill is introduced to give you an initial buildup at the start of fights on a medium cooldown. Then, all other abilities that are not auras build this resource up as well.

2. Auras require this resource to activate and they continue to work with the same ranges they do now. Could adjust their values to take into account that they may not always be able to stay up. So, they could do more requiring some strategy in their use. Remove the 5 second cooldown between uses. Activated auras drain a certain amount of this resource per second and require you to be actively participating in battle to maintain. You could potentially have more than 3 if you can keep the pressure up. That last part would be up for debate.

This would add some brain use in without changing the playstyle by some astronomical amount and potentially ruining it for people that have invested heavily in the 2 classes.

Thoughts and or opinions to make this idea better?

[Sinisterror]

I don't think that complete revamp of already established core mechanics is a good thing. Especially when both commands and auras are well mirrored. It is true that Chosen and KotBS are the least demanding classes of all three tanks archetypes but is it something wrong? I think that many players selected Chosen/KotBS because of their simplicity and would like to keep it that way. Good tanking requires from players to track many things already. IMO adding to this bag few additional options to manage will overly complex these classes.
Please don't make another classes which will require NB to play them efficiently.
There are plenty areas in current gameplay which requires immidient action instead of digging in something which is working.

Problem is kotbs/chosen (lack of) mechanic is negating most of the buffs or debuffs of any character has to offer to themselves or to allies/foes both. There should be big changes on how buffs/debuffs stack and change kotbs/chosen aura's. I would like if every prayer of dok/wp + am/sh resistance buff and all rp/zealot buffs/rituals would be made more interactive. I know this aint live but live had its own unique feel to it and unique tactics to counter something etc even if it was overpowered. Espesially before rr100 expansion. Black orc had 50 % crit dmg tactic orc racial but changed to 25 % crit dmg when choppa released but blorc could legit be doing dmg with shield unlike in RoR(bring back tree hitta snb). SM could double spirit debuff and get target with no buffs close to 0 spirit resis and spirit resis 0. Black orc and Swordmaster was originally supposed to be melee dmg classes, WL/HERDER tanks and tanking with pets was gonna be a thing im pretty sure. It's funny to me that in ror Wl is aoe melee class role? It was always counter to shaman and huge single target burst dmg tied to pet but in ror pet is dead, useless unfortunately. Mara Debuffs were great and could do insane damage or survive alot. Kotbs had runefang + 65 feet shatter confidence shattering 3 blessings and did dmg for each blessings. Or whatever shaman class used so it literally made shaman 3 hots useless and could do over 2k dmg easily from 65 ft : D Point is i could go on long time and detail ALOT good and bad things BUT fun things what made Warhammer aor original and pvp great, that uniqueness is not gone but certainly this is much " blander " version of the game. I still love RoR ofc and it does feel like Warhammer Online and bland is not maybe the right word, and always respects to the people keeping this gem alive!

[zulnam]

Recently started getting back into my kotbs. After playing IB for the last 2-3 months having no mechanic and less than 20 active buttons to use is a breath of fresh air, but my action bars do indeed look a bit empty.

With this discussion still in my mind, i started experimenting and theorycrafting. I noticed that both of these classes have more(!) auras at their 5-point tree abilities and active skills at the 9 and 13 points, respectively.

Not exactly a mechanic, but perhaps if those auras were to be switched around with the 9/13-point abilities, the classes would get a little more choices in active skills to use.

[hammerhead]

Making more buttons clickable is a goal in itself. In general, there is no need to add active abilities if there is no logic behind this, how simply to complicate the work of finger motor skills.
Let's take BG as an example. He has the same trouble as the IB. Two classes in which the basis of their protection is pumping with Thought (and their oath/protector). To do this, both mirrors need to be on the target and hit with a special skill that, at best, gives your Oath Friend(Dark Protector ) the lower limit of what the Kobs/Chosen aura can give for the whole group. Not only that, BG has a tactic that allows you to gain a lot of toughness, but for some reason it is tied to a pve skill, where toughness itself does not play a big role. And I always wondered why someone thought of tying Terrifying Foe to Hateful Strike when it would be more logical if it was tied to Feeding On Weakness. But instead of correcting this misunderstanding, the developers chose a different path, simply adding an automatic set of parry from hate. IB does not even have a theoretical possibility to have a high level of toughness even by pressing a button, even without. This could be explained by the presence of Seasoned Veteran out of the box, but honestly I think this is a weak excuse after all the changes that have occurred here but not with IB. And I sincerely don’t understand why I can’t have a toughness / resist cap as an SNB defensive tank, even investing all the points and wearing a defensive set.
It seems to me that all the auras of the kobs / chozen should give an overcap of characteristics in case of debuffs, but not how not to make the other four mirrors full-fledged tanks. And so, even if at least three buttons will leave them with no essence at all.

[Sinisterror]

Making more buttons clickable is a goal in itself. In general, there is no need to add active abilities if there is no logic behind this, how simply to complicate the work of finger motor skills.
Let's take BG as an example. He has the same trouble as the IB. Two classes in which the basis of their protection is pumping with Thought (and their oath/protector). To do this, both mirrors need to be on the target and hit with a special skill that, at best, gives your Oath Friend(Dark Protector ) the lower limit of what the Kobs/Chosen aura can give for the whole group. Not only that, BG has a tactic that allows you to gain a lot of toughness, but for some reason it is tied to a pve skill, where toughness itself does not play a big role. And I always wondered why someone thought of tying Terrifying Foe to Hateful Strike when it would be more logical if it was tied to Feeding On Weakness. But instead of correcting this misunderstanding, the developers chose a different path, simply adding an automatic set of parry from hate. IB does not even have a theoretical possibility to have a high level of toughness even by pressing a button, even without. This could be explained by the presence of Seasoned Veteran out of the box, but honestly I think this is a weak excuse after all the changes that have occurred here but not with IB. And I sincerely don’t understand why I can’t have a toughness / resist cap as an SNB defensive tank, even investing all the points and wearing a defensive set.
It seems to me that all the auras of the kobs / chozen should give an overcap of characteristics in case of debuffs, but not how not to make the other four mirrors full-fledged tanks. And so, even if at least three buttons will leave them with no essence at all.

Point is not having more buttons to press but changing how buffs stack and it just does not make any sense when 1 class can just afk and put follow on someone and he is still buffing/debuffing more than anyone. But i agree what you are saying about bg/ib. I leveled my bg yeaaars ago to 40 and been leveling ib lately and decided to check bg first time in years. Rank 40 rr 24 etc, ruin set and nothing special rest and i can get soft capped toughness without even trying, no rugged or toughness talismans or even any gear for the point of toughness and with 1 tactic soft capped. Ironbreakers should also get grudge when hitting enemy without needing tactic. Oathfriend/Dark protector could also work as extra guard but 25 % not 50 %. Doesnt stack with guard but would be very nice extra feature. Or make oath/protector usable on 2 people.

What i mean with having more active career buffs is something like this. RP/ZE ground aura's should have much bigger area of effect or make them usable on people so the buffs moves. Also 2 of those should be usable at the same time lets say when you use 1 you cant use another in 15 seconds but they would still last 30 seconds so you can have effect of 2auras for 15 seconds. AM/SH infusion/shrug should also be pulsing aoe hot and when you use those skills AM/SH would heal ALL 25 % more for 30 seconds. Archmage should have switf strikes style skill infact if that skill mirrorred exactly like it is on sw i would be fine with it, compensating for the lack off run away. Their resistance buffs should have rp/ze like usable skill like 25 % less ranged dmg for 10 seconds or just dsu like hot buffing toughness and healing for 10 seconds. Or just mirror martyrs blessing from wp tied to resis buff. Shamans Pass it on should work on hots and all other heals not just path of mork heals.

WP/DOK aura's and how they could work. BTW 2 h / dualwield really really really needs 1 life tap skill that uses ap. Righth/celerity combined with 2h/dualwield would give 25% AA haste and new skill 3 second disarm 45 cd, would change our aoe KB to single target IB like KB. Castigation/lacerate could be stacked to 2 times and 2 hit would buff your iniative. With 2h/DW and /RighteCelerity would also add 5 % armour penetration and 5 % more critical dmg. Add 25 AA haste to fanaticism/murderous intent.

[MoltenCoreMoshpit]

We really don't need to start aura twisting again, let the active auras die.

[wargrimnir]

We really don't need to start aura twisting again, let the active auras die.

Passive auras should not be overshadowing every other ability in the game then, right?

[janna]

I’m sure there are people, maybe even quite a few, that specifically chose those classes because of a lack of a mechanic. I play zealot specifically because it lacks an additional mechanic I have to keep track of. Just my two cents.

This!

Levling actually a Knight because the 2 other tanks are way to much hassle for a relaxed evening game. And i already have 15 skills beside the auras and morals i use more a less constantly with lev 30. It does not feel like afk botting to be honest.

If i wanted to smash more buttons i would play piano at a concert hall.

We really don't need to start aura twisting again, let the active auras die.

Passive auras should not be overshadowing every other ability in the game then, right?

That´s right too. Maybe just nerf the stats (or buff the other abilities)?

[nebelwerfer]

Biggest issue with the knight (imo) is that you cannot rotate auras efficiently, say you got str/toughness/resist up and want to change one out to another.

First you need to disable an aura.
8 second cooldown while it expires.
Now you can apply your new aura.

This is so sluggish and bad. New aura should instantly overwrite the oldest and then apply the cooldown.

Now going a bit off topic so ill spoiler it

Spoiler:

Regarding the power of the auras, this is another issue. No single class should be so mandatory and strong as these two tanks. Imo a fair goal of balance would be to make every race viable on their own without playing too much to a gimmick.

So lowering the gap between auras and am/rp resist buffs would be a start.

Maybe giving IB/BG a warband tactic to put aoe on their basic core buffs aswell would help. (IB already has such a thing for toughness only)