[CHOPPA] GTDC replacement

[Jabba]

Like I said if you take a dictionary (a slang one) nerf means that you made it less powerful that it was by changing it (BOTH description and actual skill/item).
This was a correction.
Your point that many skills are broken etc is not valid either, they should (and will if we give devs time) be corrected, just more fixes to have them match the tooltip. On the contrary, if the tooltip will be changed to match the skill, that would be either a buff or a nerf, because the way the skill is intended to work changed (although it was already like that due to bug/broken).

Sorry, I was trying to reason with a troll, that was my mistake

Nerf: Slang. (in a video game) to reconfigure (an existing character or weapon), making it less powerful.

Nerf, Verb: 1.1(of a video game developer) reduce the power of (a character, weapon, etc.) in a new instalment or update of a video game.

In this case an existing skill; GTDC was reconfigured, that reconfiguration made it less powerful. By very definition that is a nerf. You should stop now.

[farng84]

You mean that fixing wall damage in forts would be a nerf not a bug fix? it would reconfigure the way damage is processed in forts...
If something does not work as intended it is broken or bugged and it should be fixed. A skill not matching its description falls into one of the two categories above.
bug fix is different from a nerf, if the skill description means nothing for you I'm happy for you, but it is canon for me.

GTDC description was not changed, the skill itself was corrected according to its description.
This made the skill weaker? definitely.
Is it a nerf according to the definition that you were able to copy paste from Google? not really, it is a bug fix.
The fact that it was known and there for a long time matters? No, it takes time to correct stuff and some things just take longer due to priorities

Sorry, but I have no interest in convincing you of my point.
But I will keep saying that GTDC area was not buffed and that the undefendable removal was not a nerf both were corrections (if in my calculations I have to multiply X by 13.5 and write 135 instead, correcting my equation is not a nerf, it's a fix)
That while complaining that my main does less damage due to the changes as one of my skills is much weaker

[Jabba]

You can have fixes that are nerfs.

Using your example of wall damage in forts. Not even entirely sure what you mean there as I despise forts/keep takes, but assuming it's something to do with extra damage from on top of walls or something? as walls don't have health can't see what else it would be. A change that reduced that damage because the original amount was too much, would be a 'fix that nerfed wall damage'.

Just because it's a fix doesn't make it ineligible to be a nerf.

At no point did I ever say this change was not a 'fix' afaik, what I did say is that everyone who said it was not a 'nerf' because it was a 'fix' are wrong. This was a nerf, sure it may have been a fix too, but it was most certainly a nerf.

[farng84]

No, wall damage is damage you get through the wall.
Some can target and hit you through the wall (and I don't mean from the other side of the door with some bizarre angle). It is matter of several bug reports.
But such change would be a nerf of the line of sight for several ranged classes (I think in some cause auto attack through fort wall or keep door from melee was also reported, but that's beyond the point).
Fixing this issue would indeed make those classes weaker in forts (and would allow me surviving till the push is coming), but still I have some issue in calling it a nerf because at this point people might expect a tradeoff.
Which is the argument many make about GTDC, as they say "but your range was buffed", as if this closes the discussion because you had a tradeoff.
That is why I say there was no buff or nerf, just a fix which made it weaker overall... that cannot be countered as easily

[Orgruk]

Please keep in trail with the original subject and discuss about a way to solve choppas issue right now

[Ysaran]

It's hard to discuss anything if you know that it will not change anything. It's even harder when you don't know what discuss, since "our proposal aren't fitting the class"

[Orgruk]

It's hard to discuss anything if you know that it will not change anything. It's even harder when you don't know what discuss, since "our proposal aren't fitting the class"

The more we discuss the more we'll get a chance one day to see things changing.

[farng84]

To go back on topic (sorry for the pointless discussion) and considering what was stated by dev team (not wanting to change the skill for another one).

A very simple proposal would be removing the pull while making it undefendable (again), which was proposed many times in many treads.
That would solve most of the issues related to GTDC, for order as they complained endlessly about the pull and for choppas as it would allow use the skill whenever it is not on CD and without fear of being kicked by my WB for being a total noob.

What surprises me is that while most where asking for this sort of change (without going in more creative proposal like the ones we saw here, many of which would be very interesting as also stated by the dev), the ability was changed as per 2/10 patch.
Both would have served the same purpose and are easier changes compared to completely change a skill, but the one we got doesn't solve any of the issues of gtdc, just creates some new one (the skill is still a meme and it does less dmg)

EDIT: I would also accept that instead of making u faster GTDC slows you down (have you ever tried to run while spinning around? ain't that fast), maybe as a trade the channelling could not be interrupted but hit would chip away time (I think one of magus ability needs concentration so hits reduce the channel by 0.5 sec). Something like that could make sense and would end the insta interrupt that we usually see

[wargrimnir]

The skill has not been buffed or nerfed but corrected to match the description.

Except the correction that matched what the skill actually does to the skill's description, is undeniably a nerf to the skill. The skill being what actually happens when you press the button.
Whatever the tooltip says is pretty irrelevant, this game is filled with bugged/broken/incorrect tooltips. They can be changed the same as a skill's function. In this case, the dev's chose to change the actual skill rather than the tooltip to bring the two in line. That change made how GTDC performs weaker, therefore it was a nerf to GTDC. Was it a fix that required the skill to be nerfed? that's up to the devs and they made their choice. But people that are denying that it was a nerf at all are just burying their heads in the sand.

I agree, if you mean it like this, yes the skill is now weaker than it was before the patch (nerfed).

Something you seem to agree with yourself, or not, I'm not even sure you know yourself.

Tooltips are a pain. In the early days of the server we were entirely unable to change them, and implemention was very secretive when it came to modifying abilities. This meant a lot of implemention bits that weren't well documented (or at all), ended up as strange unexplained quirks. Running into these occasionally prompts discussions into why, and without a clear answer we see a default to Tooltip as written.

Recent implementations include Tooltip changes to provide consistency with intent. There are certainly tons of instances where ability are not performing as written, and the endless chore it's slowly grinding through them to make sure they performing as described or described as they perform.

[Orgruk]

A very simple proposal would be removing the pull while making it undefendable (again), which was proposed many times in many treads.
That would solve most of the issues related to GTDC, for order as they complained endlessly about the pull and for choppas as it would allow use the skill whenever it is not on CD and without fear of being kicked by my WB for being a total noob.

That could also be a good solution and quickly be implemented. On my own I also like a short CD PBAoE on target like Inevitable Doom, even with a 45 AP cost