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[Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

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M0rw47h
Posts: 898

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#31 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:20 pm

Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:36 pm Question is, how often will it actually work in rvr situation, compared to multiple kotbs using them= abilities wasted?

Personally I suspect that what would actually benefit kotb gameplay is keeping the auras as they are, but replacing kotb team buff abilities like Focused Mending and Dirty Tricks with something which will benefit the kotb and not the team, with as such kotbs no longer being forced to play as buff bots.
Ask yourself how often staggers, roots and other stuff KotBS/CH does is "wasted"? Obviously, it depends on player(s).
Also, FM or DT ain't Leading Shots, KotBS does benefit from those tactics himself...

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Zxul
Posts: 1890

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#32 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:32 pm

M0rw47h wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:20 pm
Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:36 pm Question is, how often will it actually work in rvr situation, compared to multiple kotbs using them= abilities wasted?

Personally I suspect that what would actually benefit kotb gameplay is keeping the auras as they are, but replacing kotb team buff abilities like Focused Mending and Dirty Tricks with something which will benefit the kotb and not the team, with as such kotbs no longer being forced to play as buff bots.
Ask yourself how often staggers, roots and other stuff KotBS/CH does is "wasted"? Obviously, it depends on player(s).
In mass fights, chances are most of them are wasted.
M0rw47h wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:20 pm Also, FM or DT ain't Leading Shots, KotBS does benefit from those tactics himself...
DT specifically says "all members except you"- was it changed at some stage? And its about how on chosen, with less team synergy compared to kotb, chosen doesn't has to play as a buff bot, which might not be as good for the team but much better for chosen gameplay.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

M0rw47h
Posts: 898

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#33 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:43 pm

Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:32 pm

In mass fights, chances are most of them are wasted.
But thats same for many classes, if you ain't anyhow organized, which is fine. I'd say you wouldn't even need to be on voice, as buffhead could track this alone.
Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:32 pm DT specifically says "all members except you"- was it changed at some stage? And its about how on chosen, with less team synergy compared to kotb, chosen doesn't has to play as a buff bot, which might not be as good for the team but much better for chosen gameplay.
You're right on DT (for some reaon was thinking about OS, nvm) and I personaly prefer Chosen gameplay aswell. However, suggested rework is exacly supposed to give you that, strong abilities that do something rather than passive gameplay.

Zxul
Posts: 1890

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#34 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:58 pm

M0rw47h wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:43 pm
Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:32 pm

In mass fights, chances are most of them are wasted.
But thats same for many classes, if you ain't anyhow organized, which is fine. I'd say you wouldn't even need to be on voice, as buffhead could track this alone.
Problem is, buffhead won't necessarily help you with auras- it doesn't shows ICD.
M0rw47h wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:43 pm
Zxul wrote: Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:32 pm DT specifically says "all members except you"- was it changed at some stage? And its about how on chosen, with less team synergy compared to kotb, chosen doesn't has to play as a buff bot, which might not be as good for the team but much better for chosen gameplay.
You're right on DT (for some reaon was thinking about OS, nvm) and I personaly prefer Chosen gameplay aswell. However, suggested rework is exacly supposed to give you that, strong abilities that do something rather than passive gameplay.
Question is if auras are the right abilities for that, since as I said personal opinion is that there is no way to balance them for outside of party play, they will end up as either useless (there is no way kotb/chosen will get aoe heal debuff anywhere near close to 50% for example even if its for a short time, so its likely whatever that aura will end up as will be, at best, 50% single target heal debuff that other classes got), or overpowered (see Dire Shielding again- it made engi in aoe spec pretty unplayable) and then nerfed to useless.
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

M0rw47h
Posts: 898

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#35 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:45 am

Assuming you rework them into AoE buffs/debuffs and person will be affected by only one, then buffead shouldn't have problem with tracking given buff/debuff.

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Skald
Posts: 138

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#36 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 am

Here's my proposal (originally posted here):

Introduction
Ever since aura twisting was removed as a mechanic (which was a good idea, as all it amounted to was tedious busywork), we've heard that a new one would be introduced in its place. As It hasn't materialised yet, it sounds like a good idea to discuss what could it potentially look like.

In my opinion a new mechanic should ideally be:

1. More involved.
2. Easy to learn, hard to master.
3. Allow the players to showcase their good judgement and skill.

Aura mechanic Overhaul
I propose reducing the effect of active auras by a significant amount (to 1/2 or perhaps even 1/3 of their current value). In return each aura could be "consumed" (which could be called Battle Shout for Knights and Call to the Gods for the Chosen) and provide the following effects (mechanically, it could perhaps be done with pressing the hotkey for a relevant aura again; if that's not possible perhaps something akin to a stance bar, with every aura on it could work):

- Drastic increase in aura effect (in the area of 240 stat points or 360 reduced resistances with all the points in the relevant path);
- Secondary effect, different for every aura (Press the Attack! and Dreadful Fear with 5% melee critical chance increase, Discordant Instability and Gather Your Resolve! with 5% magical critical chance increase, etc.);
- Both primary and secondary effect would last 5-10 seconds only;
- "Consuming" any aura would render it inactive and would have a 60 second cooldown (other, currently toggled passive auras couldn't be "consumed" during that period either).

I believe that would help achieve all three goals outlined above and would significantly increase the fun factor of these classes. It would introduce some interesting tactical choices to fights and significantly raise the skill ceiling for Knights/Chosen. A well used Battle Shout/Call to the Gods could potentially turn the tide; a badly chosen/timed one would carry a significant cost.

It'd also be interesting if we'd see some variance between the aura effects for each class, to avoid perfect mirroring.

Path of Glory/Path of Discord overhaul
To further enhance this new mechanic, I also propose to rework the Path of Glory/Discord and make them the dedicated aura trees, with all the tactics and abilities focused solely on that aspect of the classes.
Examples:
- Change the 11-point tactic into something that increases the duration of the Battle Shout for Knights and Call to the Gods and reduces their cooldown (10 second duration, 45 second cooldown);
- Exchange Unbalancing Attack with a new aura.
- Change the 7-point tactic into one that allows you take you one additional passive aura.

Aura secondary effects
Here are some examples of what secondary effects (after an aura was "consumed") could be like. Keep in mind these are short, 5-10 second effects and as a Knight/Chosen, you can only have one of these active every minute (and you also have a strong primary effect, as described above):

CONQUEST/DREAD

1. Press the Attack!/Dreadful Fear
- 5% melee crit.

2. All Out Assault!/Dreadful Agony
- In this case I propose just one AoE pulse, but much stronger.

3. To Glory!/Dreadful Terror
- (Knight) 50 AP restored initially, 40 AP every 5 seconds;
- (Chosen) 50 AP drained initially, 40 AP every 5 seconds;


VIGILANCE/CORRUPTION

1. Stand Strong!/Corrupting Wrath
- 5% chance to be crit reduction.

2. On Your Guard!
- 5% parry.

2. Corrupting Wrath
- 5% disrupt.

3. To Victory!/Corrupting Horror
- (Knight) 50% chance set back an enemy on a hit, decrease allied cast times by 0,5 second.
- (Chosen) 50% chance set back an enemy on a hit, increase enemy cast times by 0,5 second.


GLORY/DISCORD

1. Gather Your Resolve!/Discordant Instability
- 5% magical crit.

2. Now's Our Chance!/Discordant Turbulence
- 50% outgoing healing debuff.

3. Stay Focused!/Discordant Fluctuation
- 25% increase in incoming healing (Focused Mending is removed).

User avatar
Bozzax
Posts: 2650

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#37 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:38 am

M0rw47h wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:57 pm Since KotBS/CH mechanic is kinda fire and forget, so maybe its slowly time to think how to change that?
Thoughts?
If you are boored with passiveness roll an IB/BG.

Classes are different .... embrace it
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7

TreefAM
Posts: 678

Re: [Knight/Chosen] Aura Rework

Post#38 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:33 am

The classes will still be different, I don't see why so many are against this lol, just give knights something else to do class mechanic wise as well.

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