Brust potential of Mara comapred to order mdps

[Foofmonger]

Mara just deserves stance rework into something like SW has (with static buffs), so savagery would grant proper +DPS and brutality would give proper burst.

But that would mean that they have to rework the 3pt tactics because afaik these are the "replacements" for the static buffs the SW gets but otherwise I agree.
Lately I have been going on solo/duo roaming in Sav/Brut and its fine imo (it has to be said that I am 98% BiS tho).
But overall Mara is in a fine spot I think.
TB needs some rework...when I go into the lakes I dont even specc it anymore, I rather use the point for the bar to boost the core abilities a bit more.
And Brut tree needs some love.
But I have to say at this point that Mara's all three trees are kinda fine and you can do many different speccs and still can be somewhat viable, although its sometimes more for the memes...but other classes have it way worse with basically only one specc/tree viable.

I can say that from my experience, mara can do nothing in ranked sc's but wl's and msw's can easily assassinate any class. This is unfair. If I cannot kill any one after stack x3 rend and all debuff (with bis gear) and these classes can kill easily there is something weird here.

This is less about damage values and more about mobility. The reason ASW/WL can evaporate targets like that is their burst combined with the ability to "apply" that burst at their leisure. What this means is that if you time your shadowstep/pounces properly, you can catch people before they have a chance to get guard swapped (or detaunt, or challenged, etc...) or you can catch people after those cooldowns are already blown.

The issue the Marauder has is not the raw damage (and why are you rending people X3 if you are trying to burst them down?), but that they are easily telegraphed and played around in comparison to ASW/WL in a 6v6 envirionment (and also that their debuffs suck, but that's another issue). A marauder has to "run" at the enemy target, which gives the enemy team ample time to prepare, i.e. challenge the Mara, guard swap to the target the Mara is attacking, detaunt, etc...

So this is a false equivalency. You are seeing ASW/WL bursting people down and saying "well the Marauder can't do that", and while that is true, it's not about the raw damage the classes are capable of. It's about to apply that burst damage much more easily than the Marauder can, basically because those classes can teleport to a target and the Marauder cannot.

[Foofmonger]

Mara just deserves stance rework into something like SW has (with static buffs), so savagery would grant proper +DPS and brutality would give proper burst.

They basically do that already, just they aren't up 100% of the time.

Savagery literally gives a sustained DPS boost (DOT) and an AA speed debuff (debuff). Makes sense cause its the debuff/sustained damage path.
Brut literally gives a burst DPS boost (massive AA damage increase).
Monstro gives a surivabiility boost, hot and -armor pen (I hate this one personally, think it was the wrong direction for this path).

Again, I think this is not an issue and not the way that this class would need balance. Classes issue is the fact that in almost any comp, its extremely easy to just replace the Marauder's debuffs with other classes who are fulfilling tank/support/other dps roles.

Example: You bring a BG and a DPS who can heal debuff and voila, why would you want to bring a Marauder with redundant debuffs? This is why Marauder's are mediocre classes in 6v6.

[Foofmonger]

Mara just deserves stance rework into something like SW has (with static buffs), so savagery would grant proper +DPS and brutality would give proper burst.

But that would mean that they have to rework the 3pt tactics because afaik these are the "replacements" for the static buffs the SW gets but otherwise I agree.

Probably a good thing. Those tactics are garbage and have been new player traps since 2008.

[Sundowner]

Then up wl's utility from third tree at mara's level, equal st burst and utility for mara and wl, agree?

Oh man, you didn't get the point. When i create topic about mara, it ruined by order fans. Never mind. It is all good.

So you want burst of wl on mara, while wl should not have utility/survivability of mara, interesting interesting

[wildwindblows]

Then up wl's utility from third tree at mara's level, equal st burst and utility for mara and wl, agree?

Oh man, you didn't get the point. When i create topic about mara, it ruined by order fans. Never mind. It is all good.

So you want burst of wl on mara, while wl should not have utility/survivability of mara, interesting interesting

Yes why not, sav/brut mara has no utility.

[Foofmonger]

Oh man, you didn't get the point. When i create topic about mara, it ruined by order fans. Never mind. It is all good.

So you want burst of wl on mara, while wl should not have utility/survivability of mara, interesting interesting

Yes why not, sav/brut mara has no utility.

Can you please stop making Marauder balance posts already? This kind of statement is just laughworthy, and your overall point here completely misses the actual issues of the Marauder class. Simply put, your balance opinions are lazy, your analysis is weak, and your conclusions are incorrect.

You aren't helping. If you need to be taught how to burst on the Marauder, message me in-game and I'll show you how to gear and use your rotation.

Sincerely, - Marauders.

[Sundowner]

Oh man, you didn't get the point. When i create topic about mara, it ruined by order fans. Never mind. It is all good.

So you want burst of wl on mara, while wl should not have utility/survivability of mara, interesting interesting

Yes why not, sav/brut mara has no utility.

sava/brut has same utility as wl axeman/hunter has. mara's monstro has aoe kd, disorient and ini/ws debuff, while wl's guardian has only disrupt (mara has it) and st kd tied to lion (useless in city), give wl this utilities and we are even ))

[Foofmonger]

So you want burst of wl on mara, while wl should not have utility/survivability of mara, interesting interesting

Yes why not, sav/brut mara has no utility.

sava/brut has same utility as wl axeman/hunter has.

This is also wrong. Sav/Brut will have more utility than Axeman/Hunter. Not "a ridiculous amount more" but it has more. This is balanced (in theory), because Axe/Hunter has better AoE damage, far better mobility, and better burst damage.

Again, I'll repeat myself like a broken record. The problem with Marauder is that the Sav debuffs/utility suck butt. The burst is fine for the rest of the classes package, and the sustained damage is just fine too. The WL/Marauder classes are not direct 1-1 mirrors, and they shouldn't be.

[Sundowner]

So you want burst of wl on mara, while wl should not have utility/survivability of mara, interesting interesting

Yes why not, sav/brut mara has no utility.

Can you please stop making Marauder balance posts already? This kind of statement is just laughworthy, and your overall point here completely misses the actual issues of the Marauder class. Simply put, your balance opinions are lazy, your analysis is weak, and your conclusions are incorrect.

You aren't helping. If you need to be taught how to burst on the Marauder, message me in-game and I'll show you how to gear and use your rotation.

Sincerely, - Marauders.

sadly, when mara's cry that they do not have burst of wl (class with close to nothing aoe utility), while having better survivability, debuffs and roughly the same aoe dmg and have higher main stat modifiers to ST abilities (buffed), they cannot be taken seriously, because they want just overtuned character which has ST burst, st sustained damage, survivability, aoe dmg, aoe utility and debuffs, it will not be taken seriously, not by other players (excl. destor fanboys), not by GMs.

[Foofmonger]

Yes why not, sav/brut mara has no utility.

Can you please stop making Marauder balance posts already? This kind of statement is just laughworthy, and your overall point here completely misses the actual issues of the Marauder class. Simply put, your balance opinions are lazy, your analysis is weak, and your conclusions are incorrect.

You aren't helping. If you need to be taught how to burst on the Marauder, message me in-game and I'll show you how to gear and use your rotation.

Sincerely, - Marauders.

sadly, when mara's cry that they do not have burst of wl (class with close to nothing aoe utility), while having better survivability, debuffs and roughly the same aoe dmg and have higher main stat modifiers to ST abilities (buffed), they cannot be taken seriously, because they want just overtuned character which has ST burst, st sustained damage, survivability, aoe dmg, aoe utility and debuffs, it will not be taken seriously, not by other players (excl. destor fanboys), not by GMs.

Yep, it's called bias. That being said, I don't like order bias either. I like neither.

The Marauder is not a perfect class, and does have some issues. The solution to those issues is not as you say "to give the class everything with no downsides" (indicative of destro bias), or to say "Marauder is fine and best class noob, L2P" (indicative of order bias). The class does not need raw damage boosts at all.

At this point, the right call is probably to revert the 2017 nerfs to Marauders that gutted their wounds debuff. This would be a nice boost to the Savagery path to give it an actual purpose and not make one of its (once good) abilities useless.