TheoryCraft [Tanks Balance]

[noisestorm]

Well i do agree with Auras definitely being strong, but reducing the numbers so hard is the wrong way to giving them a drawback. But tbh i dont see any need to give them a drawback atm. Make some minor changes on their other base skills and some adjustments to the other tanks and see how it works out. Gutting the Auras is imo not the right approach

[Ototo]

Well i do agree with Auras definitely being strong, but reducing the numbers so hard is the wrong way to giving them a drawback. But tbh i dont see any need to give them a drawback atm. Make some minor changes on their other base skills and some adjustments to the other tanks and see how it works out. Gutting the Auras is imo not the right approach

Why? Its obvious also that is the most OP mechanic of the game. lets say 3/4 of their power. Definitevely, they need a nerf.

[Morf]

Im not bothering with reading all in-between posts now, but OP obviously made some grave mistakes in terms of 'balancing'

anyways im going to drop off a few minor things:
Kotbs:
1) Shatter confidence should be a melee Skill. And then if you use the associated tactic, it should turn into ranged and only remove 2 enchants max.
2) Runefang and tactic locations -> Runefang should NOT be a basic tactic. It should be the highest Tactic (#11) in the Conquest path. "Slice Through" should be switched to be a basic Tactic, while moving the "Efficient Swings" to the slot where Slice Through was. In other words -> Runefang 11Pts tac, Slice Through basic tac, Efficient Swings 3Pts tac.

I was also thinking about the 2 Crit tactics but then again i remembered about WE morale3

Chosen:
1) M4 Sprout Carapace should be lowered to either 15 or 10 seconds. Literally every other Tank M4 with buffs lasts only 10 seconds! Problem here is the pretty op morale-buff-tactic combined with this M4. Since i think the tactic is something special and good by itself, the Morale that profits heavily from it should be nerfed though.
2) Suppression perhaps should be changed to work similar like the Kotbs block increase. So a 10 second cd for 10 sec 10% block, or 15% parry.

Black Guard + Ironbreaker:
Personally i am totally fine with these ones tbh.

And for BO+SM i guess Aza has his own plans

Personally i would tweak some numbers on the Buff durations though. Eagle's Flight for example would fit way better if it was 15% Parry for 10 seconds, instead of 25% for 5 seconds. Same for Protection of Hoeth + Rock 'Ard with 5 -> 10 seconds, while giving it 10 more AP cost. Imo it also would give some more variety if Crashing Wave was a 8-10 second unstoppable buff on 30 second CD instead of a 4 sec buff on 20 seconds cooldown (same obviously for the BO counterpart 'Not in da face'). What i also would do, is lowering pretty much all buff duration from a BOs 20 seconds to 15 seconds, since he has no cooldown on most spells at all.

You make alot of sense, runefang to highest tactic in conquest is a great idea, i never understood why kotbs had that tactic at level 15 considering how powerful it is. I wouldnt move slice through tho, other tanks have a mastery tactic to turn there snare to aoe i dont think kotbs should be any different, i would just switch effecient swings with runefang simple as that. Shatter confidence is a tricky one for me because as the joint worse healer in the game shamans suffer alot from shatter, add the tactic and you make shaman healing useless as there main role is to hot not spam big heals nonstop as they are so easily interupted, if Am's and Shaman heals could be changed to healing instead of enchanment i would be all for how it was previously removing 3 enchants at range.
Now to other kotbs stuff...encouraged aim i would have it increase your chance to be crit by 10% meaning there is a downside to using it.
BG and IB yep i think they are fine. BO and SM your ideas are spot on, only other thing i would do is drop there KD from 13 ro 9. Chosen never really played one but they always seemed to me like IB and BG to be fine how is

[Bozzax]

Can we please wait to T4 before we overhaul everything. Sure BO/SM needs a bit of tweaks I'd be the first to admit but reworking BG/IB/Chosen/KOTBs seems a bit on the wilde side.

[TenTonHammer]

2) Runefang and tactic locations -> Runefang should NOT be a basic tactic.

To add insult to injury, Runefang is actually the first career tactic they get (at level 15), so we'll be seeing it very soon :/

Swapping the position of tactics and abilities within a tree (and indeed, swapping tactics between classes, races or archetypes) is simple to do and the client will display it correctly.

I am all for making this change quite frankly b/c for a strong tactic that has an almost 100% uptime should not be a basic tactic, that too espically considering how lackluster the lvl 15 tactics for many other classes/tanks are.

Can we please wait to T4 before we overhaul everything. Sure BO/SM needs a bit of tweaks I'd be the first to admit but reworking BG/IB/Chosen/KOTBs seems a bit on the wilde side.

if we wait till t4 that's going to be many many years from now furthermore if we make changes at earlier points in the game i feel that is better because by the time people DO reach t4 they will have adjusted rather than you playing on t4 then suddenly a patch comes out that changes everything from abilities to trees that make you basically have to relearn your class

[Bozzax]

if we wait till t4 that's going to be many many years from now furthermore if we make changes at earlier points in the game i feel that is better because by the time people DO reach t4 they will have adjusted rather than you playing on t4 then suddenly a patch comes out that changes everything from abilities to trees that make you basically have to relearn your class

I want ROR as close to WAR as possible so therefore I'd rather se a gradual change and improving the weakest classes instead of changing everything randomly.

The thing that makes dudes (like me) play this game is partially nostalgia and if everything change it may potentially backfire as it feels alien

BO/SM
10pts KD
ST KB (whatever BG/IB/KOTBS/Chosen)
0 AP for bellows lower durations on all PROCS to 5s
1-2 or two minor fixes on abilities on both as the don't stack etc

BO bellows 2.0
Fix Greenest to trigger on incoming attack including block/parry/disrupt/evade (one of armor, elem, spirit, corp) Buff 100feet debuff 30feet
Fix Biggest to buff WS / INT 100feet debuff 30feet
Fix Toughest to increase incoming heals friendly target 30feet (KOTBS mirror)

SM enchants 2.0
Heaven’s blade to increase resists on group members 100 feet
Phantom’s Blade extend absorb to group members 30 feet
Natures blade WS / INT 100 feet Buff 100feet debuf 30feet


This would do the trick while keeping as much as possible of old WAR

[TenTonHammer]

The old war was a buggy hodgepodge of glaring imbalances (which is why im looking forward to seeing a theycraft thread on mdps); and if the devs have the ability to fix something that is broken or if they feel it is broken enough to warrant a fix they i say that they should go for it, and if the game feels too alien for you to play and yo wish to leave then by all means to do so im sure you can find other games, too many people are being stubborn about resisting changes people are already constantly whining in /ad about devs changing anything whether it be toggle-able auras or hell just bringing back the old keep system.

I play this game because i love the WFB universe and even if the game feels alien ill still be here and im sure many of the other true fans will be as well.

[Bozzax]

I think my point is KOTBs, Chosen, IB, BG aren't broken SM BO are but not as much as most think

I think the OP is broken though

[Azarael]

I feel like I'm saying this over and over again, but:

These threads are theorycrafting and do not imply in any way that we're going to change anything before T4.

I'm just gonna add this to my signature.

[TenTonHammer]

i dont think its soo much broken as it is underwhelming neither brings anything that the other 2 faction tanks can't do better so any changes made to SW/BO so be targeted at making them more effective in a grp setting