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[ENGI] How would you change napalm

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wargrimnir
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Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#11 » Fri May 15, 2020 2:56 pm

Crits are already in the pipeline, if needed, but they will come with a normal patch.

Engi/Magus otherwise are fine, we don't have any plans to change them in the near future.

This whole parade of changes to Napalm/Mist were more around proc shenanigans, Dire Shielding, and Blasting Pots, not Engi/Magus balance.
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emiliorv
Posts: 427

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#12 » Fri May 15, 2020 3:53 pm

Spoiler:
Foofmonger wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:05 pm
emiliorv wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:56 am
Napalm/Mist was ruined when they changed the mechanic of the spell (which is core for the spec) => the spell MUST work like a AoE DD never was a dot...

Dot dmg was gimped when they fixed the thoughnes mitigation for dots, now nerf a aoe core spell...really if you want keep playing engi better move to snipe or magnet spec. If you want aoe dmg roll BW
I love these threads, it's just so funny.

Engieneers complain about Napalm killing them on dire shielding. Dire Shielding gets nerfed, Napalm gets nerfed so it can't trigger procs (including Dire Shielding), now Engieneers complain that Napalm isn't a DD anymore that can proc, even though you guys whined about how you shouldn't be getting killed by procs....

You want your cake, and you want to eat it it too. Ridiculous. Either accept that if you want procs on your AoE, you need to be also taking defensive procs, or that you don't get procs. This game is not "Engineers get everything they want and no downsides".
Dunno what are you talking about...i never played engi (well i have one level 12 or so...) and never play order (some norsca toons...)...for sure never complained about dire shielding fix (before they gimped the tactic again).

I have a changing magus but really dont play him often, and for sure this changes will keep him off...

On topic: napalm/mist always worked as gtaoe dd for good and bad things.

Foofmonger
Posts: 323

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#13 » Fri May 15, 2020 4:56 pm

emiliorv wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:53 pm


On topic: napalm/mist always worked as gtaoe dd for good and bad things.
The point I was trying to make is that Napalm/Mist was just changed because of Engineer's complaining about dire shielding. There was like a 20 long page thread on these forums about it. The current change to Napalm was made because Engineer players asked for it. They just didn't realize in that asking for dire shielding not to work on Napalm/Mist, they were also asking for their own procs not to work on Napalm/Mist. That's the point of what I'm saying in that "you can't have your cake and eat it too", either Napalm/Mist is a DD that gets procs (including bad procs like Dire Shielding), or it is a DOT that doesn't get procs (like it is now). There is no situation where it is balanced that Napalm/Mist can get offensive procs, but for some reason completely ignore defensive procs.

So does that make sense now? It's the equivalent of this:

"I don't want to eat that cake because it's got too much frosting"

-takes frosting off cake

"Why is there no frosting on my cake?"

I personally don't care if Mist/Napalm is a DD or a DoT. What I find funny is the whining about everything. "Whine if its too cold, whine if its too hot, whine if the grass is too green, whine if the grass isn't green enough." Some people just will never be satisfied until they can get 1 button ability called "nuke" where you kill everyone else on the server while you sit in your capital city.

wraithghost
Posts: 55

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#14 » Fri May 15, 2020 5:03 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 2:04 pm
wraithghost wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:51 pm

So grenade spec has terrible defensive stats so you are a free kill to anyone, you are immobile next to a turret, if said turret dies you lose 40% of your damage, you can’t do **** against any melee an your single target damage is weak...Erm do everything lol, I would be happy with just the one thing being able to do decent AOE damage.
For reference: I played a RR100 Magus on live - when the Magus/Engie classes were much worse than they are now. I know quite well how these archetypes work.

1. Specs don't generally have "stats" on DPS classes. That's what your gear is for. If you aren't gearing defensively, or buying the right renown abilities, that's a player issue.

2. You are "immobile", no you are not. The amount of bad RDPS players who need to google "pre kiting" is astounding, sincerely, a Marauder who keeps killing idiots who don't know that they need to run away before melee gets to them.

3. The turret dying losing damage is pretty lame, for both Engie and Magus. I don't disagree. The whole turret mechanic has some basic issues that I agree with you with.

4. You can't do "**** against any melee", this is nonsense and a player issue.

5. Your single target damage is weak, this is nonsense and a player/gear issue.

6. Engineers already do "decent AoE damage". In fact, in comparison to other classes, besides the Brightwizard/Sorc, they do "good AoE damage". In what world do Engineers not do "good AoE damage"? The one where you don't look at the rest of the classes in the game and see what kind of AoE damage they do? You want to try and list the classes in this game that do more AoE damage then Engies? Because there are 2, Sorcs and BWs. You can make a case that Slayers/Choppas can do better damage in some situations (like cities), but Engineers/Magii can outdamage Choppas/Slayers in some situations.
Just lol,

It must mean you are god and I am terrible :) nah not really you can bullshit all you want :P

Sure you can do stuff in defensive gear as a tinker but you cant do that while playing offensive napalm which is what this is about. If you go defensive your damage will be even worse and the single target thing with an aoe napalm build er what, thats about as likely about being good vs melee. You talk as though you can wear full defensive gear and compete with other classes while having every spec all at once lol.

poisonedshotz
Posts: 27

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#15 » Fri May 15, 2020 5:23 pm

Napalm now being a dot means it cannot be blocked/disrupted/dodge, so it's pretty much morale damage

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Telen
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Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#16 » Fri May 15, 2020 5:30 pm

You should be able to disrupt/block it. You can disrupt other area based dots.
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poisonedshotz
Posts: 27

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#17 » Fri May 15, 2020 6:07 pm

Telen wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 5:30 pm
You should be able to disrupt/block it. You can disrupt other area based dots.
As a tank with 75% block with skill up, I never saw napalm being disrupted or blocked in my combat logs ever since the change, over multiple hours of rvr gameplay

Starx
Posts: 279

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#18 » Fri May 15, 2020 6:38 pm

How are tanks going to survive nearly 200 dmg every 2 seconds? Jesus the meta just got tipped on its head :pensive:

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poisonedshotz
Posts: 27

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#19 » Fri May 15, 2020 6:46 pm

Starx wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:38 pm
How are tanks going to survive nearly 200 dmg every 2 seconds? Jesus the meta just got tipped on its head :pensive:
I'm just stating a fact about the mechanics, then you come in here and attack me. Good job with the discussion. Don't forget this damage also applies to dps chars or healers which might otherwise have high disrupt

emiliorv
Posts: 427

Re: [ENGI] How would you change napalm

Post#20 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:14 pm

Spoiler:
Foofmonger wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:56 pm
emiliorv wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:53 pm


On topic: napalm/mist always worked as gtaoe dd for good and bad things.
The point I was trying to make is that Napalm/Mist was just changed because of Engineer's complaining about dire shielding. There was like a 20 long page thread on these forums about it. The current change to Napalm was made because Engineer players asked for it. They just didn't realize in that asking for dire shielding not to work on Napalm/Mist, they were also asking for their own procs not to work on Napalm/Mist. That's the point of what I'm saying in that "you can't have your cake and eat it too", either Napalm/Mist is a DD that gets procs (including bad procs like Dire Shielding), or it is a DOT that doesn't get procs (like it is now). There is no situation where it is balanced that Napalm/Mist can get offensive procs, but for some reason completely ignore defensive procs.

So does that make sense now? It's the equivalent of this:

"I don't want to eat that cake because it's got too much frosting"

-takes frosting off cake

"Why is there no frosting on my cake?"

I personally don't care if Mist/Napalm is a DD or a DoT. What I find funny is the whining about everything. "Whine if its too cold, whine if its too hot, whine if the grass is too green, whine if the grass isn't green enough." Some people just will never be satisfied until they can get 1 button ability called "nuke" where you kill everyone else on the server while you sit in your capital city.
Sorry was thinkg that you talk about me (sincen you quoted).
I agree, this thread will be fun.....

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