Debate about why Order is how it is.

[Telen]

There is no bad/evil side in Warhammer. Everyone is bad/evil.

Everyone is evil in 40k. In FB though HE & Dwarfs might not be good in the Tolkien way they are still pretty much the good guys. Empire also is mostly good apart from the religious fanatacism and bigotry. Its just all the good races have flaws unlike the Lord of the Ring stereotypes.

[poisonedshotz]

Why would anybody want to play MDPS on order when BW is so strong and easy to play in open RvR keep attack/defense? In addition to destro looking cooler, part of the reason is the that many order want to play in RvR as easymode (sit on wall/behind door and spam channelled aoe)

[jtj5002]

There is no bad/evil side in Warhammer. Everyone is bad/evil.

Everyone is evil in 40k. In FB though HE & Dwarfs might not be good in the Tolkien way they are still pretty much the good guys. Empire also is mostly good apart from the religious fanatacism and bigotry. Its just all the good races have flaws unlike the Lord of the Ring stereotypes.

I wouldn't call them "pretty much the good guys" considering that Balthazar and Teclis are pretty much responsible for destroying the entire world in End Times (Not to mention High Elves has always been **** heads). Not to mention that Tyrion went bad **** insane, while Malekith ends up uniting the elven races and was the rightful phoenix king all along.

Of course you could choose to ignore the questionable writing of The End Times, but it is still the lore after all.

[wonshot]

Some interesting points and arguments so far, nice posts guys.

- looks & appearance (gear)
- Balance under/over-performing
- lore & realmpride
- solo/smallscale/largescale advantage on classes
- Synergy between classes on a realm.

I think many of these mentioned points play a role when players pick their realm or maincareer. Depending on the person one might have more weight than others in the decision naturally. But seeing cooler armor is probably something we can all agree on we wish to see, not just for our mains and own realm but for all the careers in the game. The latest reshuffle of apperances might have hinted towards how much "fasionhammer" means to the players.

Personally my meleeDPS classes(slayer, wh, asw) just dont attract me on Order and they get shelved when they reach 40. Where as my meatball and choppa hit invader progression in notime as I enjoyed their tactic choices and utility tools alot more. Also playing a melee on a realm where I know there will be tanks in the pug enviroment made it an easier project to start a MDPS

[CountTalabecland]

Hand out some of that Sweet Hammerer Armor to the IBs.Not all IB helms are bucket helms and some look quite good. Overall by far the best looking Order tank.

SM for some reason has weird coneheads for helms. Their models had some cool closed face helms but none made it into the game.

Low level Knight is ugly AF. Knight has the bandit queen Sallet helm with feathers as the only good appearance until like Invader. Until then, knight is stuck wearing weird helms and all their armor gauntlets, boots, and leg armor looks weird and sparse. Chosen has solid plate armor and a helm in T1. Knight should have a sallet and full parital plate and chainmail. I'm rambling at this point but yeah you get it.

[Kloaner]

simple solution, ban all Engineers, Shadow Warriors and Bright Wizards from the Game and you will see new Players playing Heal and Tanks. Right now you will never reach T4 on Order as a Healer without becoming a Alcoholic or something else. All the Dps AM doing at least DMG by default, no matter what button the Player accidentally hit on his Keyboard.

[Glorian]

1. The Endtimes is not lore. It is some marketing dogshit even worse then the last season of GOT.

2. make Order Tanks 10-20% bigger might be a solution. They just don't feel heavy when you charge in.
3 Blackorcs charging towards you look like double the number Order Tanks.
But I have no idea how complicated it is. Though it is possible on champions in the city.

3. I personally dig totally the low level Kotbs look as it is very puffy arms Landsknecht Statetroop like. The Helms are dorky though. Some Mordhau Sallet, or the one from the knight merchant would be great. Big fluffy feathered hat from the Greatswords and some would Warhammery freak out.

[Telen]

I wouldn't call them "pretty much the good guys" considering that Balthazar and Teclis are pretty much responsible for destroying the entire world in End Times (Not to mention High Elves has always been **** heads). Not to mention that Tyrion went bad **** insane, while Malekith ends up uniting the elven races and was the rightful phoenix king all along.

Of course you could choose to ignore the questionable writing of The End Times, but it is still the lore after all.

The End Times didnt happen. It had multiple characters acting completely out of character so that GW could wrap up an IP and create a new one just to get stronger copyright protections.

[videogamer]

I actually think buffing Ironbreakers to be more desirable in warband play would be huge. Ironbreakers are one of Order's hidden strengths imo. There are so many of them in comparison to Blackguards whom are rarely seem. If they were desirable in warbands I think a lot more people would play them, they're pretty popular anyway despite being arguably the weakest in warband play. Maybe make their buffs apply to 2-3 targets instead of 1 or give them interactions with other classes like the BORC/mSH interaction with waaagh.

[Stophy22]

I'd say its how successful the ranged classes are to the melee classes. Engi's got their bugmans so they can camp and heal so that's pretty appealing.

Shadow warriors can go melee if they decide ranged isn't fun and get free stats for it. If they do go ranged, Order has every ranged KD on demand.

Bright wizards are... I'll point out the fact that yet another on demand ranged KD is on orders side.

Seriously the side that has the class that can pounce to your backstab spot has all the ranged knockdowns...

And besides all thats said above the few times i've been on orders side I hear people suggest ranged classes the most. When that fated, "making a character what does this faction need?" question come up, often you see people asking for healers and tanks but engis and bw advocates are not about to put down their keyboards. And ill be damned if yall don't bash the **** outa slayers and WH's.

Bitterstone thunderers was an Engi only guild for a very long time, and they are a pretty popular force of orders side. Lot of appeal there.

I mean on top of all the reasons I still personally think the claim that order is more Rdps heavy is still bogus and probably holds as much weight as the xrealming argument. Few players truly stick to one side and even if they did they'll still get called an xrealmer. I only play destruction besides maybe the t1/2 mess around with friends once a month and I'm still labled a heretic by my own people when I sit there praying to tzeetch for our forts to fall and the royal crests to flow. These sovereign lands are definitely in the dry season with all the realm pride going about, seriously I can't tell what people are thinking haha. But regardless of all of that the amount tanks/mdps to rdps ratio is influenced by if people have friends to play with for their melees/tanks and if they don't... Going solo ranged on orders side is pretty fookin safe.

A lot safer than everyone who yells at people who make a slayer telling them they need a guard and heal to have a viable class. And everyone who yells at Wh's because they're playing "an nonviable endgame class". Or everyone who plays ironbreaker and can't live up to volgograds legend.... Anyway my point is as an opposing faction I get my fair share of enemy tanks in my face and if you guys are failing to see them, stop over selling your other classes. WL's run that town, son.

Also as a side note, how the **** does WE beat WH aesthetically... Ever play the game bloodborne? Imagine if all the hunters in bloodborne were replaced with skimpily dressed females with dual daggers. I would actually laugh my skimpily dressed asscheeks off.