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Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

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WARChosen
Posts: 67

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#71 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:11 pm

CeeJay89 wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:52 pm I'm going to make a real complaint about these skills. I believe they're overperforming. These two skills shut down any reasonable AoE from Order, at least as a Bright Wizard, when Destro is balling up.

I'm attaching a screenshot.

https://imgur.com/a/IsLjS9H

In the screenshot, between two or three Chosen, 2884 damage was taken in 3s.

It would take a great deal of healing to counter such absurdly high passive damage, and that was WITHOUT using Funnel Power, which would have increased that damage by a further...1250 or so (which I toggle off now because of these skills). Even with capped resists, it would reduce it by 17% to 20% more, making the damage 2400ish. This is also without even coming close to hitting max targets.

This doesn't require coordination, it doesn't require skill. It's a pop and forget skill combination. Is this intended? Does Destro believe that this IS reasonable? Because I'm not seeing it. I can't think of anything that justifies that amount of damage from popping a 17s buff with a 30s cooldown.

If someone can show a KotBS reflect performing similarly, I would agree it needs to be tweaked as well.
So here we go again 1 order BW cry because he was in range choppa skill "Git To Da Choppa" so he was in FRONT LINE with NO GUARD trying SOLO AOE and blame 1 tactic because to much dm really ?? How it so when 3-4 BW's can wipe 24 man in 3s. CeeJay89 your AOE is OK then ?? so we need nerf tactic because it works correctly ?? that's how we fix the problems that order have ??
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emiliorv
Suspended
Posts: 1295

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#72 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:05 pm

CeeJay89 wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:52 pm I'm going to make a real complaint about these skills. I believe they're overperforming. These two skills shut down any reasonable AoE from Order, at least as a Bright Wizard, when Destro is balling up.

I'm attaching a screenshot.

https://imgur.com/a/IsLjS9H

In the screenshot, between two or three Chosen, 2884 damage was taken in 3s.

It would take a great deal of healing to counter such absurdly high passive damage, and that was WITHOUT using Funnel Power, which would have increased that damage by a further...1250 or so (which I toggle off now because of these skills). Even with capped resists, it would reduce it by 17% to 20% more, making the damage 2400ish. This is also without even coming close to hitting max targets.

This doesn't require coordination, it doesn't require skill. It's a pop and forget skill combination. Is this intended? Does Destro believe that this IS reasonable? Because I'm not seeing it. I can't think of anything that justifies that amount of damage from popping a 17s buff with a 30s cooldown.

If someone can show a KotBS reflect performing similarly, I would agree it needs to be tweaked as well.
Baneshield hitting for 77 dmg/second...OP!! nerf it asap

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Detangler
Posts: 986

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#73 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:28 pm

emiliorv wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:05 pm
CeeJay89 wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:52 pm I'm going to make a real complaint about these skills. I believe they're overperforming. These two skills shut down any reasonable AoE from Order, at least as a Bright Wizard, when Destro is balling up.

I'm attaching a screenshot.

https://imgur.com/a/IsLjS9H

In the screenshot, between two or three Chosen, 2884 damage was taken in 3s.

It would take a great deal of healing to counter such absurdly high passive damage, and that was WITHOUT using Funnel Power, which would have increased that damage by a further...1250 or so (which I toggle off now because of these skills). Even with capped resists, it would reduce it by 17% to 20% more, making the damage 2400ish. This is also without even coming close to hitting max targets.

This doesn't require coordination, it doesn't require skill. It's a pop and forget skill combination. Is this intended? Does Destro believe that this IS reasonable? Because I'm not seeing it. I can't think of anything that justifies that amount of damage from popping a 17s buff with a 30s cooldown.

If someone can show a KotBS reflect performing similarly, I would agree it needs to be tweaked as well.
Baneshield hitting for 77 dmg/second...OP!! nerf it asap
I feel like i'm going to have to post a summary of the facts every page because people are consistently not reading anything and just replying to the first few and last few posts, so here goes:

1. Devs claim dire shielding only works in group mates. It does not. It currently works on all allies within 30 feet. I have no idea what the actual cap is, because dire shielding does not proc off defended attacks. i have posted screenshots of me getting 9+ ticks in a single second on someone while solo. If this is not the intended design, this fix alone would vastly limit the amount of damage seen by this skill in most situations.

2. The original screenshot and post is so misinformed about what actually is happening, i think it needs to be fully dissected so people stop making claims of "3 chosen doing 2800 damage (its not just 3)." Counting the different names in that screenshot with "Bane shield" or "discordant fluctuation" attached to it, the amount of nearby chosen players are:

Honsou
Skane
Walrath
Sirmaxx
Szael
Burgrot
Surivoy
Varrgrim
Garrad

Out of all the Chosen players in that screenshot, you were hit by a grand total of 14 hits from bane shield for 1074 damage from Bane Shield from Skane, Sirmaxx, and Varrgrim.

Out of all the Chosen players in that screenshot, you were hit by a grand total of 10 ticks of Discordant Fluctuation for 1988 damage from Honsou, Walrath, Sirmaxx, Szael, Burgrot, Varrgrim, Surivoy, Garrad.

This thread is a complaint about less than 1100 damage from 3 chosens over 3 seconds while ignoring the 2000 damage taken from Discordant Fluctuation, something that has been in the game for forever.

I'm also guessing you were not near a guard, which would have reduced the damage even further.



Again, when Dire Shielding gets fixed to be group members only (Per Wargrimnir's earlier post in this thread), you will never see 6 ticks from a single Chosen in keep funnels, because what kind of idiot healer stands in the middle of the funnel? One that will die soon, along with his entire team.

The sky is not falling.
Detangler and alts - 84 Chosen, other 40s - DoK, Zealot, SH, WE, BG, BO
Destro - Mostly Harmless
Tangler and alts - 8X IB, other 40s - RP, SM
Order - Most dishonorable

DevilOcelot
Posts: 1

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#74 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:54 pm

For the dire shielding tactic as mentioned before, it's supposed to affect "allies". Allies at least by the definition I understand should be Warband members and group members. It doesn't specify group members. Chosen auras explicitly state group members for the benefit and therefore limited to only group members. Why then does it need to be reduced to only affect group members?

I will agree with the notion that it should not affect friendlies that are not directly associated with the Chosen utilizing Dire Shielding. (Non-group members/ Warband members)

There doesn't seem to be a balance that anyone can nuke 24 people and can get away with it unscathed. Discordant Fluctuation does provide some level of backlash but it's completely negated with the amount of incoming heals. At least the tactic for Bane Shield should give aoe casters some pause instead of brain-dead nuking from a safe distance.

That's not to say that Bane Shield/ Dire shielding doesn't need to be looked at, but reducing the total amount of players affected by it seems a bit silly. I do recall using dire shielding in live and it was the same thing. It was a tool to prevent careless aoe spam in choke points.

emiliorv
Suspended
Posts: 1295

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#75 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:12 pm

Spoiler:
Detangler wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:28 pm
emiliorv wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:05 pm
CeeJay89 wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:52 pm I'm going to make a real complaint about these skills. I believe they're overperforming. These two skills shut down any reasonable AoE from Order, at least as a Bright Wizard, when Destro is balling up.

I'm attaching a screenshot.

https://imgur.com/a/IsLjS9H

In the screenshot, between two or three Chosen, 2884 damage was taken in 3s.

It would take a great deal of healing to counter such absurdly high passive damage, and that was WITHOUT using Funnel Power, which would have increased that damage by a further...1250 or so (which I toggle off now because of these skills). Even with capped resists, it would reduce it by 17% to 20% more, making the damage 2400ish. This is also without even coming close to hitting max targets.

This doesn't require coordination, it doesn't require skill. It's a pop and forget skill combination. Is this intended? Does Destro believe that this IS reasonable? Because I'm not seeing it. I can't think of anything that justifies that amount of damage from popping a 17s buff with a 30s cooldown.

If someone can show a KotBS reflect performing similarly, I would agree it needs to be tweaked as well.
Baneshield hitting for 77 dmg/second...OP!! nerf it asap
I feel like i'm going to have to post a summary of the facts every page because people are consistently not reading anything and just replying to the first few and last few posts, so here goes:

1. Devs claim dire shielding only works in group mates. It does not. It currently works on all allies within 30 feet. I have no idea what the actual cap is, because dire shielding does not proc off defended attacks. i have posted screenshots of me getting 9+ ticks in a single second on someone while solo. If this is not the intended design, this fix alone would vastly limit the amount of damage seen by this skill in most situations.

2. The original screenshot and post is so misinformed about what actually is happening, i think it needs to be fully dissected so people stop making claims of "3 chosen doing 2800 damage (its not just 3)." Counting the different names in that screenshot with "Bane shield" or "discordant fluctuation" attached to it, the amount of nearby chosen players are:

Honsou
Skane
Walrath
Sirmaxx
Szael
Burgrot
Surivoy
Varrgrim
Garrad

Out of all the Chosen players in that screenshot, you were hit by a grand total of 14 hits from bane shield for 1074 damage from Bane Shield from Skane, Sirmaxx, and Varrgrim.

Out of all the Chosen players in that screenshot, you were hit by a grand total of 10 ticks of Discordant Fluctuation for 1988 damage from Honsou, Walrath, Sirmaxx, Szael, Burgrot, Varrgrim, Surivoy, Garrad.

This thread is a complaint about less than 1100 damage from 3 chosens over 3 seconds while ignoring the 2000 damage taken from Discordant Fluctuation, something that has been in the game for forever.

I'm also guessing you were not near a guard, which would have reduced the damage even further.



Again, when Dire Shielding gets fixed to be group members only (Per Wargrimnir's earlier post in this thread), you will never see 6 ticks from a single Chosen in keep funnels, because what kind of idiot healer stands in the middle of the funnel? One that will die soon, along with his entire team.

The sky is not falling.
Will be awesome to get a tactic fixed and after that make it useless again....really worth!! or you think that any chosen will waste 1 tactic slot to get 77 dmg/second reflect x 2 grpmates (mostly 3) ??
after they make only grp afected this tactic will back to the trash-unused like it never got fixed...

User avatar
Fey
Posts: 768

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#76 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:30 pm

I don't envy Wargrimnir on this one, but I tend to agree. If you fix this tactic, so to speak, it will go back into the rubbish bin.
Fley - Zealot Domoarigobbo - Shaman
Squid - Squig Squit - B.O.
Black Toof Clan

Illuminati
Posts: 189

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#77 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:38 pm

AdamtheLC had the best suggestion. If you equip DireShielding it shortens the hell out of the duration instead of adding to it. Test that for a few days. If still too overpowered, restrict to WB and allow the duration back, test etc.

Would be willing to help test of course.

You’re right though, will be rubbish any other way.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 6

emiliorv
Suspended
Posts: 1295

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#78 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:58 pm

Illuminati wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:38 pm AdamtheLC had the best suggestion. If you equip DireShielding it shortens the hell out of the duration instead of adding to it. Test that for a few days. If still too overpowered, restrict to WB and allow the duration back, test etc.

Would be willing to help test of course.

You’re right though, will be rubbish any other way.
There are a lot of "tweaks" that can be done/tested....you can make to grp restriction and tweak the effect: since chosen is a tank, what about to give the % dmg reflected as a mitigation => like misdirection M1 from casters but with a lower % value. Only for grp and only if tactic is slotted (of course)....this will not bring a massive aoe backlash and give a low amount of magic mitigation for your group, something that will be "intended" as a support class...

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Illuminati
Posts: 189

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#79 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:02 pm

emiliorv wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:58 pm
Illuminati wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:38 pm AdamtheLC had the best suggestion. If you equip DireShielding it shortens the hell out of the duration instead of adding to it. Test that for a few days. If still too overpowered, restrict to WB and allow the duration back, test etc.

Would be willing to help test of course.

You’re right though, will be rubbish any other way.
There are a lot of "tweaks" that can be done/tested....you can make to grp restriction and tweak the effect: since chosen is a tank, what about to give the % dmg reflected as a mitigation => like misdirection M1 from casters but with a lower % value. Only for grp and only if tactic is slotted (of course)....this will not bring a massive aoe backlash and give a low amount of magic mitigation for your group, something that will be "intended" as a support class...
It’s all moot here really. The team is probably busy with server stability so imagine the quick adjustment is where they stop. Was fun for a minute but still -414 vs every random AoE door spammer lol.

BTW, can we disable blast potions. They are being treated as hits, which proc everything from BW buffs, etc.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 6

User avatar
adamthelc
Posts: 832

Re: Bane Shield (less-so Discordant Fluctuation)

Post#80 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:35 pm

emiliorv wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:58 pm
Illuminati wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:38 pm AdamtheLC had the best suggestion. If you equip DireShielding it shortens the hell out of the duration instead of adding to it. Test that for a few days. If still too overpowered, restrict to WB and allow the duration back, test etc.

Would be willing to help test of course.

You’re right though, will be rubbish any other way.
There are a lot of "tweaks" that can be done/tested....you can make to grp restriction and tweak the effect: since chosen is a tank, what about to give the % dmg reflected as a mitigation => like misdirection M1 from casters but with a lower % value. Only for grp and only if tactic is slotted (of course)....this will not bring a massive aoe backlash and give a low amount of magic mitigation for your group, something that will be "intended" as a support class...
It sounds like they have already decided what tweak they are going to make. Instead of just viewing the high thorn damage as a byproduct of the AoE cap that makes BW so strong, they are going to arbitrarily decide which abilities have a 24 cap and which have less.

Mindlessly spamming Rain of Fire = ok. Mindlessly using Bane Shield = not ok. Since that would interfere with the BW Rain of Fire spam and they wouldn't be able to use funnel power to hurt themselves for more obscene damage. Bane Shield needs to be low impact enough so people can continue to spam AoE and essentially ignore it.

Kind of a smart ass comment, but it seems like only one side of whats really happening is being taken into consideration.

And I am only bringing up BWs because that was what was presented in the OP. Sorcs and Magus do they same thing as BWs, they just aren't as good at it.

I'm not saying they need to lower the AoE cap, but this seems like a situation where they are nerfing somethings AoE cap to protect the ability of other classes to exploit the AoE cap. Which to me is a little goofy.

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