[WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

[teiloh]

Was nerfed has been nerfed for awhile. Mara's do have rupt but they're not worth stacking 6 to make a difference 1-2 rupts isn't going to change whirling axe channels. If you go back up to previous post 6 WLs can cycle rupts every 1.66 seconds meaning 8s timer or not MSH bounce is negated fully. WBs are also starting to use shield SMs which also get a rupt as mention in that same post the 1 comp had 9 rupts that's 1 every 1.1 seconds WITHOUT cd reduction.

How are Marauders not worth stacking? They can stack AP/Morale drain and their interrupt is free and superior (40 foot half-sphere vs 15 foot sphere). They don't rely on pets for anything. 6 Marauders can do everything you are talking about here except they arguably do more damage, are much more survivable because of Monstro (self-heal + Ignore Armor Pen), have much better morales, have an AOE WS/initiative and their interrupt can also disorient.

And it's quite a stretch to assume EIGHT people can time things so well that they're firing off abilities in perfect rhythm 1.1 seconds apart from one another. You're also assuming every single one of your casters/channelers are in a 15 foot radius circle which is nuts.

[Sigford]

Was nerfed has been nerfed for awhile. Mara's do have rupt but they're not worth stacking 6 to make a difference 1-2 rupts isn't going to change whirling axe channels. If you go back up to previous post 6 WLs can cycle rupts every 1.66 seconds meaning 8s timer or not MSH bounce is negated fully. WBs are also starting to use shield SMs which also get a rupt as mention in that same post the 1 comp had 9 rupts that's 1 every 1.1 seconds WITHOUT cd reduction.

How are Marauders not worth stacking? They can stack AP/Morale drain and their interrupt is free and superior (40 foot half-sphere vs 15 foot sphere). They don't rely on pets for anything. 6 Marauders can do everything you are talking about here except they arguably do more damage, are much more survivable because of Monstro (self-heal + Ignore Armor Pen), have much better morales, have an AOE WS/initiative and their interrupt can also disorient.

And it's quite a stretch to assume EIGHT people can time things so well that they're firing off abilities in perfect rhythm 1.1 seconds apart from one another. You're also assuming every single one of your casters/channelers are in a 15 foot radius circle which is nuts.

Morale drain/ap drain is only worth it if they're stacked fully, they are quite close to that coordinated (not saying it's on the spot 1.1 seconds, but really close) as majority of our WB isn't getting abilities off that have a cast time. Marauders do no where near the DPS of a WL (please see SS posted here where WL dunks Mara dmg) and if you disagree please provide SS from cities where Mara does more damage (i'll wait). Mara's bring 0 ST dmg in mostro build where as WLs have both. Mara's is a 40 foot cone whereas WL is 15 ft around them WL pounce to back and slam dunk heals after melee pushes up. WLs can jump around the battlefield as they please bypassing morale/AP drain if needed. You stay with healers you clump and still get ripped.

[adamthelc]

I dont have enough data to actually know how close WL damage is in WBs to other big damage dealers. But if it's even close the fact that Slayers/Choppas have the mechanic they do seems like a flaw.

WLs are doing nowhere near the DPS of Slayers and Choppas. The reason why they put out high numbers is because they have mobility and aren't as soft as targets as Choppas/Slayers. This is why the OP's screenshot has a Magus on top with 3.7 million damage and no one is calling for a Magus nerf.

I'm not going off of some random screenshot or what any random person says. I am not really trying to debate what place there damage is. It's high enough it should be looked at.

More to your point, you put 6 or 7 magus in a scenario and they arent all going to do that. Additionally magus have to build stacks and be tethered to a turret, a limiting factor to their damage, which again WLs dont have.

I wasnt even trying to pick on WLs. The same could be said about SHs. If a SH can do comparable damage to a Choppa without a penalty to its defense, has better mobility and better morales. Why does a Choppa need reduced mitigation? Target cap, ease of doing damage and overall damage matter. It's not just who has the harder hitting ability.

[Sigford]

TLDR why is WL damage comparable to a BW or Slayer without the lowered survivability mechanic?

Because it isn't. +50% damage is +50% damage, WL have no way to match up to Slayer/Choppa raw damage with their AOE channel.

WLs counter SHs with interrupt, takes their bounce out of the equation, same with Choppa, core abilities require a channels. and if WoI stands for Winds of Insanity it gives immunity else you'd be right. The sounds of it you've not been on the other side. I've fought SH and choppas and yeah it sucks, but it's manageable. 6 WLs is just ludicrous in the cities.

SH bounce is on a 8s timer. Destro has TWO cooldown reducers superior to WW in deployment. Mara's likewise have an interrupt. WOI does not leave an immunity, but respects it, unless it was nerfed.

Was nerfed has been nerfed for awhile. Mara's do have rupt but they're not worth stacking 6 to make a difference 1-2 rupts isn't going to change whirling axe channels. If you go back up to previous post 6 WLs can cycle rupts every 1.66 seconds meaning 8s timer or not MSH bounce is negated fully. WBs are also starting to use shield SMs which also get a rupt as mention in that same post the 1 comp had 9 rupts that's 1 every 1.1 seconds WITHOUT cd reduction.

My bad I'm incorrect about the immunity, BUT WOI is interrupt-able which would easily be accomplished

[teiloh]

I'm not going off of some random screenshot or what any random person says. I am not really trying to debate what place there damage is. It's high enough it should be looked at.

More to your point, you put 6 or 7 magus in a scenario and they arent all going to do that. Additionally magus have to build stacks and be tethered to a turret, a limiting factor to their damage, which again WLs dont have.

I wasnt even trying to pick on WLs. The same could be said about SHs. If a SH can do comparable damage to a Choppa without a penalty to its defense, has better mobility and better morales. Why does a Choppa need reduced mitigation? Target cap, ease of doing damage and overall damage matter. It's not just who has the harder hitting ability.

Actually stacking Magi melts faces. Engis can't do it because their main DD is physical damage.

[teiloh]

My bad I'm incorrect about the immunity, BUT WOI is interrupt-able which would easily be accomplished

WOI has a radius of 30 feet.

WL and SM interrupt has a range of 15 feet.

A Marauder could do it, a WL could not get in range.

[sighy]

I'm not going off of some random screenshot or what any random person says. I am not really trying to debate what place there damage is. It's high enough it should be looked at.

More to your point, you put 6 or 7 magus in a scenario and they arent all going to do that. Additionally magus have to build stacks and be tethered to a turret, a limiting factor to their damage, which again WLs dont have.

I wasnt even trying to pick on WLs. The same could be said about SHs. If a SH can do comparable damage to a Choppa without a penalty to its defense, has better mobility and better morales. Why does a Choppa need reduced mitigation? Target cap, ease of doing damage and overall damage matter. It's not just who has the harder hitting ability.

Actually stacking Magi melts faces. Engis can't do it because their main DD is physical damage.

Magi have spells, which literally do not stack. So only the most powerful cast counts. Also thing about magus is that they are steady consistent damage dealer, unless your heal is asleep it's not gonna do that much. And they are bound to their demon otherwise they lose all their bonuses.

[sighy]

I dont have enough data to actually know how close WL damage is in WBs to other big damage dealers. But if it's even close the fact that Slayers/Choppas have the mechanic they do seems like a flaw.

WLs are doing nowhere near the DPS of Slayers and Choppas. The reason why they put out high numbers is because they have mobility and aren't as soft as targets as Choppas/Slayers. This is why the OP's screenshot has a Magus on top with 3.7 million damage and no one is calling for a Magus nerf.

I'm not going off of some random screenshot or what any random person says. I am not really trying to debate what place there damage is. It's high enough it should be looked at.

More to your point, you put 6 or 7 magus in a scenario and they arent all going to do that. Additionally magus have to build stacks and be tethered to a turret, a limiting factor to their damage, which again WLs dont have.

I wasnt even trying to pick on WLs. The same could be said about SHs. If a SH can do comparable damage to a Choppa without a penalty to its defense, has better mobility and better morales. Why does a Choppa need reduced mitigation? Target cap, ease of doing damage and overall damage matter. It's not just who has the harder hitting ability.

In practice AoE WL blows slayers out of the water and competes with BWs. On top of having powerful mobility, cc, survival and st. Literally only thing it doesn't have is a cd increaser.

[teiloh]

Magi have spells, which literally do not stack. So only the most powerful cast counts. Also thing about magus is that they are steady consistent damage dealer, unless your heal is asleep it's not gonna do that much. And they are bound to their demon otherwise they lose all their bonuses.

Magus DoTs stack with the same spells cast by other Magus. I designed the stacking bonuses for Engi/Magus so I know what it does.

In practice AoE WL blows slayers out of the water and competes with BWs. On top of having powerful mobility, cc, survival and st. Literally only thing it doesn't have is a cd increaser.

They don't have a 50% damage increase mechanic and Choppas/Slayers don't rely on an easily killed pet for damage bonus and crit bonuses.

[adamthelc]

I'm not going off of some random screenshot or what any random person says. I am not really trying to debate what place there damage is. It's high enough it should be looked at.

More to your point, you put 6 or 7 magus in a scenario and they arent all going to do that. Additionally magus have to build stacks and be tethered to a turret, a limiting factor to their damage, which again WLs dont have.

I wasnt even trying to pick on WLs. The same could be said about SHs. If a SH can do comparable damage to a Choppa without a penalty to its defense, has better mobility and better morales. Why does a Choppa need reduced mitigation? Target cap, ease of doing damage and overall damage matter. It's not just who has the harder hitting ability.

Actually stacking Magi melts faces. Engis can't do it because their main DD is physical damage.

Cant argue anymore after that comment.