Which side needs more players NA?

[Starx]

I guess that narrows it down to BO/Kotbs for tanks and then Zealot/RP for healers for a 4 man group?

Im just really afraid of touching any MDPS because we will be fighting RR80 players at sub 40 and then even after than in pretty crappy gear, detaunt is nice but doesn't stop you from getting slaughtered by RDPS and also doesn't stack with guard. I feel like we will be able to take more engagements as a kite group, you know 4 ppl looking down 10 running in with any mdps just seems like suicide whereas with rdps you might be able to string some out.

Of all the MDPS mara seems like the most viable for this? It's relatively tanky, has good utility, and a healdebuff. But I don't think order really has a counterpart, WL doesn't have the same level of utility, no healdebuff so you would like have to run double mdps with only one tank or a dps AM. The 30 sec cooldown on BW healdebuff seems like a big deal breaker to me. Every post im reading is saying SW is the most awful class ever so that leves almost every order comp I can think of in a 4 man taking a DPS AM for the healdebuff or having to run a slayer/wh with bad gear and low levels which seems a lot more risky than say a low gear or level marauder.

[wpc56]

BO is terrible at range combo because he has weak aoe ensnare, silly aoe punt that gives everyone immunity in exchange for a short punt distance

Good range combo kite around their WC or PVE paths so they have somewhere to retreat to and hope the zerg stop chasing them and kill the ones that charges too deep. It's a lot more limiting

You would be surprised at how well Guarded dps can survive with heal (equal number)

I've said all I can. Just think about a class that can bring incoming healing debuff to confirm kills or high burst classes like WL/BW

I've seen knight/SW/WL/RP works wonders (with SW being the weakest part of combo, no mobility outside of M2)

knight for space control, ensnare, stun and aoe buff/debuff (toughness)

WL to pounce in for the kill

SW to apply healing debuff before or post stun

You will kill unguarded target in seconds (except sword/board tanks)

[Starx]

BO is terrible at range combo because he has weak aoe ensnare, silly aoe punt that gives everyone immunity in exchange for a short punt distance

Good range combo kite around their WC or PVE paths so they have somewhere to retreat to and hope the zerg stop chasing them and kill the ones that charges too deep. It's a lot more limiting

You would be surprised at how well Guarded dps can survive with heal (equal number)

I've said all I can. Just think about a class that can bring incoming healing debuff to confirm kills or high burst classes like WL/BW

I've seen knight/SW/WL/RP works wonders (with SW being the weakest part of combo, no mobility outside of M2)

knight for space control, ensnare, stun and aoe buff/debuff (toughness)

WL to pounce in for the kill

SW to apply healing debuff before or post stun

You will kill unguarded target in seconds (except sword/board tanks)

You recommend chosen then over BO for our 4 man? As for order Im afraid to touch WL looking at changelogs it seems to be getting hit with nerf bat quite a lot and 10 sec cd on pounce seems like it really hurts.

For now anyways I think we are going to try Chosen+Mara+Sorc+Zealot for destro, and then either your suggestion of KotBS+SW+WL+RP, or swapping out the WL and SW for BW and DPS AM. Kind of afraid to try that WL+SW group as it seems really gear dependent? I could be wrong anyways. Thanks for the help so far though its at least narrowed down what tanks and healers we should definitely play although dps seems a lot harder a question to answer.

[TreefAM]

Don't be afraid of the melee train friend, but yeah if you're roaming and just ganking people then your groups are pretty decent.
Also SW currently is pretty **** as ranged so you'd like to play it as melee too.

[wpc56]

All melee DPS needs gear, they dps comes from crit modifier (crit = 2x dmg instead of 1.5x) and primary stats so you need gear to crit and hit hard

Whatever you do, stay away from DPS AM in a group. They excel at stealing kills while everyone is occupied against pug. They are completely nullified by geared healer or one that cleanses a lot. They are a win more class. If your team is winning, they top the chart, if your team is losing, they kill no one. If there's a mix of pug fighting in sc, they steal kills because there's a melee fight in the middle and healers aren't paying attention or healing more important ppl (like tank and melee dps)

Don't use T1 to measure effectiveness of a dps AM, they top out in T1 and progressively get worse as they level where everyone else gets stronger. They are very strong 1v1 class in T4 but then we're talking about group play here.

If you are going dest, you should go Chosen - melee squig - sorc - zealot. Mara is average at everything... while melee squig have unlimited pounce if you so no pet... more armor than marauder and more aoe dmg too (without healing debuff) . You have the option to go range SH for pure range combo too, it can work well.

[Starx]

Melee squig lol is that really a thing? Never thought of it.

We tried AM+BW+KotBS+DPS AM tonight, one thing we noticed was having 2 ppl that can heal was pretty much mandatory for our success/enjoyment so many moments where we pulled through that wouldnt of been possible without the extra healing output from the """dps""" AM.

Which makes me honestly afraid of trying to run with only 1 healer in our destro setup. I know DPS AM is going to have godawful healing once you spec for it but at least its some extra help. We thought of maybe switching up our destro comp to DPS DoK+BO+Sorc+Zealot, DPS shaman doesn't seem nearly as good as AM.

I know ppl dont like dps am or a hybrid style but we pretty much just working with 4 ppl right now im trying to figure out how we can manage to have everything covered and 1 healer seems pretty rough when you a 4 man trying to fight like 10 ppl even when you are playing alongside a pug warband.

[Wam]

Melee squig lol is that really a thing? Never thought of it.

We tried AM+BW+KotBS+BW tonight, one thing we noticed was having 2 ppl that can heal was pretty much mandatory for our success/enjoyment so many moments where we pulled through that wouldnt of been possible without the extra healing output from the """dps""" AM.

Which makes me honestly afraid of trying to run with only 1 healer in our destro setup. I know DPS AM is going to have godawful healing once you spec for it but at least its some extra help. We thought of maybe switching up our destro comp to DPS DoK+BO+Sorc+Zealot, DPS shaman doesn't seem nearly as good as AM.

I know ppl dont like dps am or a hybrid style but we pretty much just working with 4 ppl right now im trying to figure out how we can manage to have everything covered and 1 healer seems pretty rough when you a 4 man trying to fight like 10 ppl even when you are playing alongside a pug warband.

Low level healer is going to have a very rough time in those setups... maybe a high level / well geared and experienced healer can pull it off but its alot of pressure (talking rr 60+ and vanquisher gear, genesis etc)

Most teams are 2-2-2 2 tank, 2 dps, 2 healers... but you can hybrid it a bit with 1 tank (if they are good guard swapping, 3 dps, 2 healers) It is just different styles and setups...

DPS zealot and runepriest recently got nerfed and avoid completely

DPS AM and Shaman have a place but are very niche, the snare puddle is very effective for kiting, and shamans silence in right tree is a big deal. (zealot stagger one healer, shaman silence the other you aim to kill and burst away)

BW is very squishy and not the best roaming class, its very glass cannon can do alot of damage but needs alot of support, in your setup you only have one guard and healer, so only one BW can be slightly saved too much healing pressure (if your healer is CC etc) the burst will be too much

BW is great for bigger scale / warbands ... but in ranked solo (scs.. 6 v 6) Melee tend to do better... In Orvr if you have a more kite setup then maybe its not too bad but cant really achieve that with 4, missing extra guard and extra healer to relieve pressure... Destro side have it better, SH, Sorc, Shaman,Zeal and insert tank with punt.

in your order setup... if you was Runepriest (best mobile healer) DPS AM, Knight and BW it would probably fair better... knight guard swap and buff party (+15% healing) and punt away any threats... or punt enemy tanks guarding a target to assist on... DPS AM and BW assist one another... RP heal... if someone dies then DPS AM rez / help out a little with heals... just a slight tweak like that would probably see you have more success for a 4 man.

[Starx]

oh **** i miss said ya it was DPS AM not 2 bw sorry

[Mystry]

Short answer: Order

Long answer: Order always needs more players because Destro has always been overpopulated since their classes tend to look better than Order classes, particularly when it comes to strong classes that are good in warbands.

Also you only have the following options for classes:
Healer: Any
Tank: KoTBS
Melee DPS: Slayer
Ranged DPS: Bright Wizard

Don't waste your time trying to play any other class, as they aren't viable for a variety of ways (unless you go out of your way to do the 6v6 scene which is mostly dead).

[donkawonka]

RP is best healer in game so you will definitely one.