DPS DOK NERF

[Flavorburst]

I just love how the pro players of this thread speak about casual players like if they can't read a skill description. Must be difficult to find shirts that can cover that amount of ego.

That's because more often than not, they can't.

Half of your posts are explicit proof of that.

[toffikx]

I just love how the pro players of this thread speak about casual players like if they can't read a skill description. Must be difficult to find shirts that can cover that amount of ego.

That's because more often than not, they can't.

Half of your posts are explicit proof of that.

Not all mortals are destined to clear Gunbad.

[Ototo]

I just love how the pro players of this thread speak about casual players like if they can't read a skill description. Must be difficult to find shirts that can cover that amount of ego.

That's because more often than not, they can't.

Half of your posts are explicit proof of that.

Nice try, but I don't think that I'm good. I play a lot of classes though. 20 character slots filled

[Wdova]

I still dont get it.

If this 50% heal debuff tactic wasnt an issue for 1 year or more (since players were able to reach lvl 36/rr40 and spec Curse of Khaine and Devour esence at same time ), it become issue now? Because what? You raised AOE cap to 24 insted of 9?

From where this "need" to tone down this tactic came? Since when?

Is it because of ranked SCs implementation?

What is behind this nerf really?

[simtex]

I still dont get it.

If this 50% heal debuff tactic wasnt an issue for 1 year or more (since players were able to reach lvl 36/rr40 and spec Curse of Khaine and Devour esence at same time ), it become issue now? Because what? You raised AOE cap to 24 insted of 9?

From where this "need" to tone down this tactic came? Since when?

Is it because of ranked SCs implementation?

What is behind this nerf really?

nobody has any idea, apparently someone in charge of balance just said. "this is how it works now"

[madrocks]

DPS DoK nerf was totally unnecessary and highly exaggerated.
AOE Heal debuff capability of DPS DoK is not out of balance. It is not a "pug-killer", It is a mandatory tool.
There should be more then one class providing this in each realm - 1 melee, 1 ranged - WP/DoK - RP/Zealot. The only issue I see here is that Warrior Priest does not have it for whatever reason.

DPS DoK in warband play is a viable and strong option, not only for DE warbands. DE warbands is a gig - it's just for fun, you should know that... Grunbe...

I did lead all of Grunbes so nicely categorized warband types as DPS DoK and heal DoK. Some like it, other don't - I could care less, I know what I achieved.
What I clearly know too is that open warbands have a 90% chance to be way out of balance and cause trash performance.
Tactical approach towards a goal with a specific warband following a 2/2/2 setup or a 1tank for 1heal and 1dps is a personal choice of a warband/guild leader, part of what makes this game unique.
Even thought, compositions are totally warped and onesided now with the increased aoe cap from 9 to 24 that causes the Zerg warfare to be all out standard.
But Warband compositions is a topic apart, people tend to argue for weeks about it.


DPS DoK is a viable alternative to a DPS Zealot but if Curse of Khaine does not trigger on AOE abilities anymore it is just obsolete.
A DPS dok needs full PVE gear to shine and painstaking SC grind for weapons.
That means Bloodlord set and Sentinel jewelry.
Let me summarize that for you cheeky pve hating scrublords:
3 times Gunbad
10 times BE/BB
4 times Bastion Stairs - I think its 8 times for the cloak?
Hours of Scenario grind for the try-hard weapons.

After all this insane timesink, you need to literally find a bodyguard tank and a pocket heal, because whatever you do and wherever you go, DPS DoK is squishy as ****. A good ranged DD can destroy a DPS DoK.
Why I list this? So you people understand that a dps dok does not just show up out of nowhere without careful preparation. This is an MMORPG - no dedication, no merits.

Now to say that DPS DoK is over performing because of the AOE capability from Curse of Khaine - and whatever you are going to come up with - compared and against other classes in ANY pvp situation is due to the lack of gear, dedication and game understanding of the opposing player.
The last 3 listed facts are the standard tool set of a player's not-giving-a-**** mentality applying to everyone that randomly joins open warbands without looking at it's composition, just to leech of the zone contribution for an easy bag or medals.
This mentality can only be fixed by the community through guidance without a happy-days filter. But much better would it be fixed by ingame options to display private warbands with a simple archetype listing summary. Just to repeat to you a constructive advice from last year.
So if your goal is to truly help the avarage pug player then - in my opinion - better organization of warbands through in-game options is the only way.

Balance can only be achieved If the stage is set for it. 6vs6 is not the right stage, for sure not in a game with 24 classes, 6 armor sets each and with a trash 24aoe cap that puts the focus on the gameplay to just achieve the highest critical mass as possible to the most narrow choke point as possible.
As said by many other community member too again and again, not organized groups should never be the measuring bar for balance.
Not organized randomly open PUG warbands without lead and sturcture are the herpes of orvr. The ignorance behind it - mentioned above - causes zerg, failure, bias bullshit talk.

[anarchypark]

you can still spread aoe heal debuff.
just 1 easiest aoe dot proc has gone.
spread direct aoe harder you whiny self anointed pros.

[Marawo]

Just as an FYI, Rune of Nullification and Changer's Touch have been adjusted too for the next patch.

The only sensible change I can see is making these tactics so they can't be reapplied when they are already active on a target.
Going through disrupt and having to crit they don't have a high application chance already on a RP/ZEAL, also consider the lack of abilities that actually can aoe proc it.
It's not like you can healdebuff a whole wb with it.

[Derry]

DISCLAIMER. This is just my 2cents.
I personally haven't seen or felt the problem with aoe healdebuffs in general. The only problem I've personally felt with abilities like DOK healdebuff and WOI is that there is very little to no counterplay to them. Since Dok healdebuff cannot be cleansed and a good dps dok can keep it up 100%. WOI you could techically say the counterplay is just to back off when zealot goes for it, but sometimes the terrain in this game creates a scenario where you cannot do that. Trust me, I've been in situation where I get punted to a wall by zealot, only for it to take 1,5seconds for me to actually fall completely down due to terrain and then repeat. I wouldn't personally remove any aoe healdebuff from the game, only thing I would suggest is make them all have counterplay.

Make all aoe healdebuffs cleansable by healers. If the healers are bad and dont cleanse, that means you win because they don't use the tools in their disposal. If the healers are cleansing the healdebuff instantly, you need to try outplay them by applying the healdebuff only when there are already other debuffs affecting the target, now healers can counter this by constantly spamming cleanse.

I admit I haven't played that much ranked lately but for me the problem with dok healdebuff was never the aoe, is was the fact that I have very little potential to do anything about it, can't cleanse it, ok, lets use shields, well as wp i have 1 groupshield with 1min cd while dok can keep the healdebuff on the target 100% and eventually the target will just die from the pressure without me being able to do anything about it.

So in summary. Keep aoe healdebuffs, even on DOK. But change all of them to be cleansable instead of proc from tactic. This way, people have tools to use against big numbers with the healdebuff and if the enemy is somewhat organised, they have tools to counter what you have(spamming group cleanse). Same stuff with WOI, making it interruptable will not totally destroy the ability, it only makes counterplay available. Ok enemy interrupts your first WOI, you slap in the second zealot doing it, if enemy is not organised might be all tanks used taunt to interrupt it and dont have it available for the second one.
Problem is when there is no way to counter what enemy is doing.

[donkawonka]

They are cleansable