DPS DOK NERF

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

We most certainly do not HAVE to balance around top group setups. Top group setups will adapt to any changes we make, that's why they're the top groups. That doesn't exclude us from making changes based on those setups, which we have in the past. That doesn't EXCLUDE us from making pug changes, or solo changes, or any other changes provided the changes are reasonable in some context, which this one was.

We're not going to give up on balancing, and to be quite honest it doesn't sound like you're going to agree with much, so maybe you should be the one to quit involving yourself in balance discussions. You're certainly not making any good faith arguments here.

The duration of the debuff wasn't a factor really, the area of effect was. But sure, I said the wrong duration. That's fine, I was just trying to give people some explanation of what we were actually looking at and potentially concerned with. Maybe if I were the one that physically went in and made the change it would have been fresher. We decided on the change a week ago.

If a top tier player from both small and large scale playing both order and destro isn't gonna agree much with your balancing changes, you have a serious issue. And if you don't understand that you have to balance around well-rounded groups, then I really have no idea why you are even talking in a balance discussion.

Because I'm one of the leads involved with balance. What exactly are YOU trying to accomplish here? Do you think admonishing me on nit picky BS is going to help you somehow? I'm more than happy to listen to people that want to provide value. You certainly don't seem to be interested in that.

How do you think that works out in the end? Don't be a problem if you want to be involved. Be a solution. Be helpful.

You actually believe I don't want to be part of the solution? I would love to apply for balance/design position, where can I do so?

And now lets set the records straight, cause you make it sound as if I only complain and whine at you, while I've given many arguments that were simply ignored.

- First of all you ignored my argumentation why the AoE capabilities of the tactic are not problematic in an organised group play. That is because Order has the tools to counter this with Blessing of Grungni and Focused Mending, which any average and above organised group would run 100% of the time. In addition you also have a chance of proccing Exalted Defenses on the Warrior Priest for even 20% more healing, although that is less likely in 6v6, yet likely in scenarios, 6-man roaming and warband play.

- Instead you argue that the AoE capabilities of the heal debuff are overpowered in warband play with the tactic having a 9 second duration.

- When I point out it has a 5 second duration, you state that the duration "wasn't a factor really". When your argument rests on the fact that it is OP for warband play, a 9 s vs 5 s duration makes a HUGE difference in the AoE uptime that you will have. Meaning it would be much less impactful with a 5 s duration vs 9 s duration.

- Further you ignore the fact that no top organised warband runs any dps DoKs whatsoever, so they clearly do not agree with the fact that the dps DoK or this tactic was OP for warband play.

- You ignored my argumentation for why you cannot balance for 1v1.

- You argue that the top groups will always adapt anyway. While true, this is completely unrelated to balance. If only one group setup is viable for 6v6, all the top groups will run it. But does this mean the game is balanced? Obviously not.

- If you want me to write a whole post why you have to balance around well-rounded groups I am happy to do so, maybe in that balance/design application? And just to be clear, this is not about 6v6. It is about well-rounded groups in all areas, whether that is 6-man roaming, scenarios, warband play, or 6v6. And I'm fine to try and find a balance for all these areas.

[zumos2]

Now let’s talk about your plan to nerf all heal AoE 50% heal debuffs. Have you thought about what it means for warband play? Simply put, you are nerfing offensive capabilities of the warband for both Order and Destruction. That means you are changing the balance between offense versus defence of warbands. The only logical reason to nerf the offense, is if you feel like the balance at the moment between the two is too much in favour of the offense.

I am interested to see why the Dev team feels that way. Apart from the instant burst damage from morale, I personally feel like the balance is more in favour of defence than offense at the moment.

[simtex]

DoK is still legit for the insecure premades going with 3 healers and whoever says dok warband game got nerfed is unaware that dps doks dont even have space in BiS Warband composition.DoKs and Wps in DPS tree already has too many buffs like anti root and anti snare on like normal dps toon, % 25 flat armor penetration 20 seconds buff every 40 seconds and still keep their hybrid heals,abilities and class spesific morales meanwhile maintaining their ability to resurrect.
So maybe stop acting like a victim for a class which is easy to play and kill and heal at the same time.

Ahh, typing on forums without any indication who you are ingame = insecure.

Weren't you unbanned from having this same behaviour that you are displaying again?

What are you on about mate? I was unbanned because i asked for it.

[simtex]

DoK is still legit for the insecure premades going with 3 healers and whoever says dok warband game got nerfed is unaware that dps doks dont even have space in BiS Warband composition.DoKs and Wps in DPS tree already has too many buffs like anti root and anti snare on like normal dps toon, % 25 flat armor penetration 20 seconds buff every 40 seconds and still keep their hybrid heals,abilities and class spesific morales meanwhile maintaining their ability to resurrect.
So maybe stop acting like a victim for a class which is easy to play and kill and heal at the same time.

Ahh, typing on forums without any indication who you are ingame = insecure.

Weren't you unbanned from having this same behaviour that you are displaying again?

What are you on about mate? I was unbanned because i asked for it.

[simtex]

On topic, tested last night in 6v6 and it doesnt seem to be any difference. Id still like to see procs off EL and DE as imo they are direct hits.

Also SE dot component still procs HD.

In summary, still 100% uptime on single target.

[Lorsten]

On topic, tested last night in 6v6 and it doesnt seem to be any difference. Id still like to see procs off EL and DE as imo they are direct hits.

Also SE dot component still procs HD.

In summary, still 100% uptime on single target.

Seems we will have another DPSDOK nerf, according to dev's posts in this thread, which is sad tbh.
This is strong nerf for WB gameplay, where DPSDOK was bad anyway, so i have no idea what was behind that hotfix.

[Flavorburst]

- Instead you argue that the AoE capabilities of the heal debuff are overpowered in warband play with the tactic having a 9 second duration.

- When I point out it has a 5 second duration, you state that the duration "wasn't a factor really". When your argument rests on the fact that it is OP for warband play, a 9 s vs 5 s duration makes a HUGE difference in the AoE uptime that you will have. Meaning it would be much less impactful with a 5 s duration vs 9 s duration.

- Further you ignore the fact that no top organised warband runs any dps DoKs whatsoever, so they clearly do not agree with the fact that the dps DoK or this tactic was OP for warband play.

To be fair, the healdebuff being 5s or 9s doesn't really matter when speaking of things like FS which has the chance to healdebuff constantly for ~30 seconds. Granted, for this to happen you would have to not cleanse it for it's full duration.

[mubbl]

Just as an FYI, Rune of Nullification and Changer's Touch have been adjusted too for the next patch.

may you spoiler how?

[normanis]

will it be changed chosen turbolence incoming aoe heal debuff. while kobs have outgoing healdebuff. most chosens run turbolonece aura while kobs heal debuff is good in 6vs6 -where they can reach healers.
. also chosen has aoe wounds debuff ( with aura) and not saying mara/wych wounds debuff. where u need spec byt not require certain mutation or weapon. vs slayer or kobs where u need 2h.
p.s i seen magus have 200 wounds buff - aegis of orange fire. +60 wounds buff dont play big role. if counter side have so many wounds debuffs. not saying choppa/chosen +160 wounds buff

Mara JUST need go full sava and its single target

so what? byt still mara has it.

[zumos2]

- Instead you argue that the AoE capabilities of the heal debuff are overpowered in warband play with the tactic having a 9 second duration.

- When I point out it has a 5 second duration, you state that the duration "wasn't a factor really". When your argument rests on the fact that it is OP for warband play, a 9 s vs 5 s duration makes a HUGE difference in the AoE uptime that you will have. Meaning it would be much less impactful with a 5 s duration vs 9 s duration.

- Further you ignore the fact that no top organised warband runs any dps DoKs whatsoever, so they clearly do not agree with the fact that the dps DoK or this tactic was OP for warband play.

To be fair, the healdebuff being 5s or 9s doesn't really matter when speaking of things like FS which has the chance to healdebuff constantly for ~30 seconds. Granted, for this to happen you would have to not cleanse it for it's full duration.

The uptime on a large number of ppl will drastically be improved if it was actually 9 seconds.